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BotRK Nerfs Are Coming (Red Post)

March 4th, 2013 Leave a comment

Riot Fixed

As expected, Riot will not leave Blade of the Ruined King in its current state for very long; a hotfix will be heading our way as soon as Riot are happy with the server stability. This is no surprise, more interesting is the very in-depth post by Xypherous about what the aim of BotRK is.

1. The item is DPS efficient on squishy characters

Kind of. Fundamentally, any item built off of current health will always look overpowered when it works. This is because the optimal case for current health damage never actually happens in game. For example, let’s say that BoRK breaks even with BT at 1700 health for the target. What this actually means is that BoRK breaks even with BT at 1700 health for the target assuming there is no other damage sources affected the target at all. Given that almost every character has base damage on their skills and the like – the balance of numbers shifts terribly – For example, if your mage deals 600 AoE damage to the enemy team – BoRK needs to be extra-efficient to still be a valid HP counter at this point. This is also why the active is as strong as it is – The use of the active nerfs the passive damage of the item.

2. Current % Health Paradigms are flawed – because the AD carry will follow after the burst casters

This is somewhat true to a certain extent – but the goal of a counter-item is to counter niche cases not strengthen already existing cases. The current BoRK for example, excels at self-peel and is especially good in 1v1 case against bruisers (regardless of what class you are.)And the current health paradigm allows the item to essentially self-nerf itself when other elements of the game are strong (burst casters).

3. It is a mush-rush first item for a carry?

Kind of.

Again, this boils down to – How much damage is your support adding to your combo? In a Leona lane, for example, you’d be hard pressed to argue that their HP pool is actually 1200 – or how effective your autoattacks are.

4. The active adds more burst than the previous incarnation.

Potentially but it’s generally weaker than the previous active – and that’s why it rolled out – it was viewed as net neutral in most contexts.

150 + 0.5 TAD on an item with 45 AD roughly breaks even with the previous active at 1466 health – which is an HP threshold that only tanks/bruisers break early.

5. But the item is clearly overpowered on live and ruining the game experience!

Most likely. However, I’m more concerned with whether the item feels counterable at this stage. Rest assured though, we’re not going to wait on the next patch to fix it. We knew going out that the item could have come out pretty crazy – and watching it over the weekend – it has been pretty crazy at is.

So we’ll be hotfixing this as soon as we’re comfortable with the server situation (Along with some other bugs.)

 

Nerfs and buffs come and go; but posts as awesome as this, that show the thought process behind the items, are a much rarer beast. Thanks Xyph, keep it up.

See the original post and have your own say on the official forums here.

- Jaszon ‘Lightblind’ Alexzander@Ravus

 

  1. Prescerly
    April 9th, 2013 at 21:00 | #1

    The next time I read a blog, I hope that it doesnt disappoint me as significantly as this one. I mean, I know it was my option to read, but I basically thought youd have something intriguing to say. All I hear can be a bunch of whining about something which you could fix in the event you werent too busy searching for attention.

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  2. TellsWhatsHeard
    March 7th, 2013 at 14:44 | #2

    @Jio Derako
    I think they will be changing the numbers of AS and base ad maybe. As they can’t really nerf the on-hit effect too hard without making it too expensive for what it gives. Now it just gives too much all-around useful stats for ad carries considering the price. Lowering the AS to maybe 35% and maybe some lifesteal or ad i think will make it reasonable as an item considering the same price.

  3. TellsWhatsHeard
    March 7th, 2013 at 14:37 | #3

    @Singed
    It was obviously not intended that it’d be buffed so hard but with the AS component attached it became too strong to have these stats. Don’t come talking about being ignorant after making such a statement as yours.

  4. Grimwulf
    March 5th, 2013 at 09:18 | #4

    @Singed

    You’re right Riot had never dome something right……

  5. Singed
    March 5th, 2013 at 06:41 | #5

    They can’t do something right … First the item was remaked than it’s too op … nerf inc. please Riot don’t be ignorant. Do something right

  6. Sam4Vimes
    March 5th, 2013 at 06:25 | #6

    Well according to the pro players this item needs a nerf and after I tried it myself I feel pretty much the same. I think it should be more balance fix than a nerf but something must be done. Looking at voyboys match history for example gives a clear answer if the item is op or not. He has built it for every AD hero he has been playing.. I think ADC:s are still very viable but its up to good mechanics and team comp if u will succeed in taemfights or not

  7. zupsero
    March 5th, 2013 at 04:32 | #7

    Srsly? Nerf?! R.I.P. ad carrys… Lookin at DB’s soraka nidalee botlane… Ad carrys are useless.. pls just Nerfy item adc can use… Fk it.. i loved to play ad.. but they r just useless right now.. i loved botrk and it made them viable again.. but Nvm just nerf it..

  8. Jibba
    March 5th, 2013 at 01:57 | #8

    @Jensel Diaz
    All that you need to do in that case is to make the % damage not apply to monsters. (note minions and monsters are 2 different things)

  9. Cêro
    March 4th, 2013 at 23:29 | #9

    WTF? This item WAS OP befor, cause you healed yourself for the amount of that 5 % health you raped. Now you just have that 10 % or so life steal on it, so it was already nerfed -.- and i has it as a standart build on my ad carrys, and with that nerf it the burst coming from it is much weaker than other items ;) but what i really love on this item, and thats why i have it always, is the active, cause with this active as an ad carry, you have substain, even if you get targeted by a bruiser or a tank in a teamfight, you can protect yourself with that, what for me is very important, that in the lategame while the meeles just stack health, they also get dmg while thinking to engage the carry and he´s harder to get, so they have to play well to get me and not just killing me cause they are so high on hp that i can do a shit about them! So why nerf that item again? there are alot of more important broken things to nerf than that

  10. Ruay
    March 4th, 2013 at 22:10 | #10

    Just make the item more expensive its really cheap for what its doing atm

  11. Jio Derako
    March 4th, 2013 at 21:30 | #11

    I’m curious what they intend to change, here; from what I can see, it’s Xyph’s belief that the “% current health” damage nerfs itself as it goes (lots of bonus damage at the start, slowly dwindles as their health drops), and I’m inclined to agree with that. The bonus damage is good, but it’s not huge, I don’t think (not compared to flat AD increases, which may do less at high HP but more at low HP in comparison to BotRK).
    What he does seem to be looking at is the fact that it’s a must-rush item for some ADCs; and whether or not it is counterable, which I would say it is (by building more armor and less health), though that is less than desirable when there’s less good MR items out there to maintain your defenses against mages.

    Possibly a hit to how effective it is early-game? I’d say that would have to involve cost increases, or a reduction in some of the lifesteal or AS perhaps. I don’t think the item itself is a huge issue in a build, it just can be an issue if it’s providing a lot of power early. Maybe even buff some of the stats, and push the cost up by a fair bit, make it a better item for late-game. Or have some part of it scaling on the champion’s base stats or directly off their level (they’ve already done the latter with Viktor’s passive item), so it’s just less powerful early.

    I really like the item as it is currently, so whatever they do, I hope it’s nothing too drastic. (I love it on Irelia especially, but I was having some luck with it early on Vayne as well; lets her build for AS right off the bat to abuse W, without having to miss out on all that lifesteal that an early BT provides.)

  12. RoZemi
    March 4th, 2013 at 21:17 | #12

    We need an item for Irelia she’s been nerfed enough.

  13. pandaboi9
    March 4th, 2013 at 20:21 | #13

    Honestly imo if you die and you have the item its not op lol

  14. Doug
    March 4th, 2013 at 19:59 | #14

    They should have left this item alone and fixed all the other broken stuff in the game. The last incarnation of BoRK was really useful for a small number of characters who didn’t have any other items specially suited to them. Now those characters have nothing and the rest of us will have an item we won’t want to use in a couple of days.

  15. Patroks
    March 4th, 2013 at 19:38 | #15

    @Takaeda
    I feel its not that its op, its just that much stronger than the rest of the adc choices.

  16. xylotism
    March 4th, 2013 at 19:34 | #16

    mush rush.

  17. Huzzlaman
    March 4th, 2013 at 19:27 | #17

    This item is just pretty much making AD carries viable again, and people are crying. They dont have the mechanics to play a squishy champion most likely to be focused, so they get stuck with their “faceroll-over-keyboard-run-trough-everything-while-making-tons-of-damage” bruisers, AND now that we carries have the item to actually be effective against their healthstacking non-fabulousness, they cry its op. 2 letters F U, while you have Randuis, FH, etc to make our life miserable, we have 1 goddamn item, dont cry, stfu, l2p and play

  18. Patroks
    March 4th, 2013 at 19:27 | #18

    @Hiimcool
    It is supposed to be made for adc’s, there is no reason to make it ad caster specific.

  19. Hiimcool
    March 4th, 2013 at 19:16 | #19

    Just make it melee only

  20. MrRedmond
    March 4th, 2013 at 19:02 | #20

    @Takaeda
    Agreed, I don’t feel it’s too OP to the game breaking level, and after having seen the stats v BT earlier today, I feel it’s a good early-game for certain ADC’s, but not everyone.

  21. Jensel Diaz
    March 4th, 2013 at 18:59 | #21

    The only OP thing about it is the ridiculously fast dragons and barons that happen. It makes the already snowball meta even more snowbally. God forbid someone shows themselves bot at 25 mins when a team has 3 BOTRK’s.

  22. PSJ
    March 4th, 2013 at 18:52 | #22

    And what about Randuins? I agree that this item is pretty op, but ADCs need it at this stage.

  23. Takaeda
    March 4th, 2013 at 18:52 | #23

    It doesn’t feel OP at all.