Atlantean Syndra Splash Art
Twitch New Splash Art
SKT T1 Skins Splash Art (shared between skins)
If you have any questions for me, feel free to ask me at @NoL_Chefo.
If you have any questions for me, feel free to ask me at @NoL_Chefo.
Guinsoo: Fiora’s Rework
Meddler: Ao Shin Release
Single Posts – Lissandra’s Passive and Miss Fortune W QoL
Previous PBE Changes from Patch 4.6 Cycle:
Link to official announcement.
A chill grips the man’s spine as a warped giggle echoes through the streets. He’s coming. Fizz used to be welcomed with open arms but recently, something’s changed. Vaulting over walls with his corrupted trident, he’s been terrorizing everyone for weeks with his demented games. The man starts running, passing by an alley when something strikes his back and drags him to the ground. Reality tears beneath him and a sickly sweet odor envelops the street. He looks back and sees Fizz, reeking of corruption, staring and chuckling. Moments later the ground erupts as a putrid leviathan bursts forth from below, devouring the man in an instant. Void Fizz and his pet love to play hide-and-seek.
Play gruesome games with Void Fizz, available now in the League of Legends store for 1350 RP (discounted to 975 RP through April 14).
Following yesterday’s discussion on Fiora’s rework, Guinsoo elaborates on Fiora’s power curve, passive and development.
Guinsoo: That’s a good question that I think as a design team we haven’t fully solved – what exactly should a melee ADC’s power curve look like with respect to time? I think we did make strides with the new Yi and Yasuo. I guess in an ideal world I’d like her to be fairly well rounded, maybe shading slightly weak in the early going and leaning slightly strong in the late game.
But at the end of the day I want her to be about her abilities and how well she used them. But this is a very complicated question whose answer will likely change or become more defined over time, as we discover what exactly she’s capable of, what feels good, what exactly we want to emphasize about the actual mechanical skills themselves.
Guinsoo: Yeah to be honest I’m not super stoked with where the (new) passive is at, it’s a fairly generic steroid that we plan to replace with something more relevant once we get a good grasp for exactly how her gameplay flows. I have several ideas for different ones I’d like to try out to encourage various target selection/gameplay choices.
Guinsoo: I’m not clear about the timeline at all, so I can’t even give you a vague “soon™” or “not soon™”. I have a meeting about it tomorrow, but I don’t think I’ll be able to share too many details. At this point I don’t even know if she’s planned to be tied to an art rework, new VO, or anything like that.
After I combed through 50 pages looking for all my posts, I found the “next Riot post” feature. Lol.
Guinsoo: It’s definitely harder. As you can see, players have strong opinions about their favorite champions, so changing them is never easy. I also think it’s more enjoyable – I think there’s a more clear design path since you have an idea for how the character plays now and how you might want them to play; that’s a lot harder when making a character from scratch, which is like setting sail for the new world without having any idea where it actually is or what it looks like, but you’ll know it when you get there.
Guinsoo: This is definitely what we’re striving for. If you break Blade Waltz down to its primal components, it’s a bunch of dashes, it makes you invulnerable, and it does damage. All of those pieces are there on her kit already (with a few enhancements for example to the Riposte).
Guinsoo: I don’t disagree with this point. The benefit to starting with Riposte as an immobile spell are multifold. First, it makes the Blade Waltz enhancement to it feel super epic; second, it puts maximum counterplay into the opponent’s hands to counter out the extreme defensive capabilities in the skill, matching most closely the fantasy of extreme counterplay between Fiora and opponent; and third it allows us to increase the power budget in a successful Riposte to the maximum (because it’s harder to pull off).
We are definitely not opposed to making it more mobile if it doesn’t work out well, but this is the appropriate starting point, I think. We’d definitely have to make it weaker in terms of amount of damage blocked and/or return Thrust damage dealt if she could normally move during it.
Guinsoo: This is definitely the case. I’ve always thought fencing was about maintaining a maximum defense (so you don’t die) while looking for the opening to kill the opponent, so that by fighting in this manner if you don’t make any mistakes you would never die and would beat any opponent who made a mistake.
But it becomes slightly different in the world of League of Legends where a single sword wound will never kill an opponent. I’d imagine that in that world, fencing would be about being able to inflict maximum damage output while minimizing ‘great risk’ (since both parties can afford to take a couple hits, I suspect you would no longer opt for a 100% defense strategy).
Guinsoo: Those are all always banned in any serious match or competition. They also ban moves that give an enemy a chance to miss and a few other things. Pokemon PvP has a steady pacing based around either matching your poke’s types and attack types versus the opponents and vice versa (essentially trying to always super effectively hit while resisting his attacks), or trying to stall by countering all of his threats with defenders that can slowly whittle them down. OHKOs do not fit into Pokemon at all.
I’d guess Baton Pass teams are probably a lot stronger in the new gen so I guess that can be a third type of team, where at the start of the match you focus on super buffing your pokemon and then passing that buff to a super hard hitting mon that can sweep the entire enemy team, regardless of typing. But even this team has counterplay, as taking out the buff chain at any point basically wins you the match, as does getting off a Clear Smog or Haze, or priority Brave Birding it down with Talonflame, etc.
Not to mention when you see his team will likely to be Baton Pass, you can just use a starting pokemon that has a buffing move of its own, so while the opponent is using some turns to buff and some turns to Baton Pass, you can just buff the whole time, and then out sweep their sweeper.
It gets a little complicated if they start with a Scolipede or Blaziken (banned) because they can buff their speed every turn while Sword Dancing, but for example a Volcarona can Quiver Dance every turn to buff her dps and speed (and sp def which is admittedly useless vs a Sword Dance BP team). There’s counterplay.
Long ago, a sand dragon was teased as a new Champion release. So when is Ao Shin coming to League?
Meddler: We’re still working on Ao Shin, but for now he’s a long way out. Some of our initial ideas for translating his concept into an actual in-game champion haven’t quite panned out, so we’re continuing to work towards an approach that really hits the bar. He’s definitely a champion we want to make happen, but we’d rather take a long time than fail to do his concept justice.
Follow on question: What are you folks most interested in seeing in dev journals?
Meddler: My time’s more focused on working with the other folks on the team and general champion stuff now, so I’m not doing full gameplay design on new champs anymore. Have been tag teaming the design on a champ with Gypsylord though, which I’m really excited to see come to fruition sometime this year.
Meddler: Lissandra wise I’ve been pondering some passive tweaks. Have tested out a couple of alternatives that tie in with her need to dive into fights (conditional ice shields). Haven’t yet hit on anything that hits the mark, nor determined whether that would be instead of or in addition to her current passive. Going to keep testing, no guarantees that’ll go anywhere though.
Meddler: One of the passives I’ve been looking at’s pretty similar to that actually, though based on a stack building system, with a shield at max stacks, and stacks gained when you CC an enemy (more stacks for champs/less for minions). Current version, due to the CD in particular, runs into some issues where it just happens in team fights, and so there’s a lot less gameplay created than I’d like. Going to try tuning it when time permits, see if there’s a version that minimizes that issue.
ricklessabandon: I’ve asked about it, but we won’t be able to do something like that independently of some kind of visual update (which I totally keep trying to bring up casually as a thing that would be awesome to do). So short answer is that we’ll totally look into it once we’ve allocated artists to working on her, but I have no idea when that would possibly be since it isn’t currently on anyone’s schedule that I know of.
If you have any questions for me, feel free to ask me at @NoL_Chefo.
Red Post Collection
With the recent rework of Gragas in Patch 4.5, what’s the community’s opinion of the booze-loving fatty?
Solcrushed: This is the thread I hope to consolidate the feedback on the new Gragas. While we won’t be making significant balance changes before we have some data, feel free to suggest improvements, builds and lanes!
Some changes I will be making for the next patch regardless of his balance.
I would think once the issue with the Autoattack after E is fixed, E would more or less guarantee a W anyway.
We would expect that his new strengths and weakness suit him better in non-mid lanes but if he is still proven to be a good mid we would be fine with it, provided that the pattern change holds.
Also His mana costs were reduced quite a bit to reflect that he no longer has W mana restore and he will be building less mana items. Maybe they are not enough, we will see.
Rengar is back from Patch 4.5 with a fully reworked kit! But is he still the fierce assassin he used to be?
RiotScruffy: The Rengar update is live and we’re playing and monitoring his performance a ton on our end. Let’s use this thread for constructive feedback. Once we have more data we will definitely be adjusting his power levels up or down if he needs it.
I’ve already seen a suggestion that I like: his alert to enemies during the ult only appears if they would be able to see him out of stealth, we’re already talking about this a lot internally. This seems like a good way for Rengar to optimize a bit more by taking clever paths on ganks and approaches.
Riot Jag: I’m pretty interested in the builds that people try out on him. In playtest a lot of our experienced Rengar players thought Blade of the Ruined King was really strong on him. I think some people will make the classic Trinity/Sunfire/Spirit Visage build still work though.
Riot Jag: Since this version of Q doesn’t give you AS it does feel a little slower at first, but we made some small changes to the spell to ensure it feels good. There may be an adjustment period but if it still feels clunky we’ll keep an eye on it.
Riot Jag: We have definitely shifted the time-to-kill window for Rengar’s assassinations more into the fighter end of the spectrum (closer to Jax than Zed, for example). He’s not going to kill someone in 1-2 seconds, yes, but his damage over 4-5 seconds should be comparable to or better than the previous version while also having stronger tank stats and better stickiness.
Riot Jag: It’s true that his early lane has more weaknesses than his previous iteration. We shifted some of his power away from his Level 2 cheese and spammy E-harass, but added some back in sustained trades, healing when he’s behind in lane, and assistance for jungle ganks. One thing I’m curious on here is what is an assassin’s idea of winning lane, especially in the top lane. When we see assassin’s top lane they’re generally more than happy to be able to farm against bruisers.
Riot Jag: If you feel like his pushing power is excessively weak I think that may be a fair criticism. We’d like to keep an eye on his overall power level since he has a lot of other really strong tools to aid in tower pushing (e.g. using an Empowered Q on a nearby minion for a strong AS bonus, the ult giving a good escape, etc.)
RiotScruffy: There are a few people suggesting that the warning from his ult should be global. We thought about this idea actually but it was actually too punishing for Rengar because it gave his opponents too much time to react, and essentially removed all of his ganking power. Enemies would all just back up to their tower before he could engage, so we went with a much shorter warning time frame.
I’m much more keen on the idea that if he wouldn’t be visible, the warning will not appear. This rewards clever paths and approaches when ulting.
After the brief info we got from Ghostcrawler yesterday, here’s more of his thoughts on Riot, game design and more!
Ghostcrawler: That’s a huge challenge of talking to players. If you want to be really honest, which we generally try to do, then that means talking about plans (even pretty solid plans) that have a chance of not working out. The alternative is not to talk about anything that isn’t 100% ready to ship. I prefer the former, but I understand it can be frustrating.
Ghostcrawler: I love Morello too. We should hang out. The thing you have to remember as a developer when you’re talking to players is that some of them are going to be angry or even nasty, but you can’t let it get you down. At the end of the day, they are usually speaking out of passion just trying to improve a game they love (unless they are true trolls who just want to sow discord, but in my experience those dudes are pretty rare). Having passionate players is awesome. Every game developer very much wants passionate players!
Ghostcrawler: I love this about Riot, and I love that a bunch of the Rioters posting are from disciplines other than design. It helps reinforce that these are real people (who love their job!) and not just PR bots spouting some approved company line. I think it also helps reinforce that it takes so many people from different disciplines collaborating to create a game.
Ghostcrawler: Okay, here is an example where I’m going to attempt to prove that I don’t mind leveling with you guys. But you have to not beat us up about it. We’ve talked about this a lot, and we agree that Riot used to do a better job of providing context, debating design changes, and following up on things we said we’d follow up on. When I was on the outside looking in, I was super impressed with how well Rioters communicated with you guys, and I think it’s fair that it has fallen off some this season or so.
It’s a priority to get back there. We probably burned a little bit of trust with you guys and it’s time to try to get it back. Please hold us to that, and let us know when we go astray.
Ghostcrawler: We do. He still plays. As you might imagine, designers love to sit around and dissect design decisions in other games. I think a bunch of the guys have enjoyed asking how I really felt about various aspects of WoW.
Ghostcrawler: That’s how I got my big break. Some players like the “That’s what happens when you let a marine biologist balance your game” narrative, but I worked on Age of Empires for 10 years before I ever went to Blizzard. I started on Rise of Rome and worked on every title up until Halo Wars, which is around when I left. Ensemble Studios (who made AoE) was a great place to work and I still keep in touch with a lot of friends-for-life that I made there. It’s interesting to me that RTS games have kind of died off lately, save for Starcraft.
I’d like to shed some light and clarify the above statement as it is not entirely correct:
If a champion or skin had a graphical or kit (play style) rework after your purchase, you do indeed have the option to refund them without spending any refund tokens. However, this refund is for FULL reworks only. Buffed and nerfed champions do not count as full reworks and, as a result, are not eligible for a refund. Also, in order to be eligible for this refund, you must request a refund on a visual/design rework within 90 days after the rework. We will not be able to give you a refund beyond the initial 90 days.
For more info, you can check out our content refund guidelines are available on the player support website at the following location: https://support.leagueoflegends.com/…ent-Refund-FAQ
Hope this helps
ricklessabandon: Going to bring this thread back from the dead now that I’ve had some time to read everyone’s responses and think about them a bit. My plans for the immediate future are to: watch Miss Fortune on 4.5 and make balance changes as necessary, and then make adjustments for AP-scaling Miss Fortune. I should be able to get something in time for the 4.6 patch—we’ll see how things test over the next week.
Based on where she’s at now I don’t think it’ll take much, but wanted to give you all a heads up that i’m still working on her all the same.
GUINSOO is working on a Fiora overhaul as a “light fighter.” We’re still in very early prototying, but we agree Fiora is one of the worst characters upon delivering on her fantasy – a skilled, deft fencer.
I think much of her kit will change, but for the better.
Link to Comic
I thought that was awesomely adorable, enjoy reading! And don’t forget to check out the artist if you like her work!
Red Post Collection
Why is Riot intent on toning down Lulu mid? Will this harm support Lulu? Why can’t we turn our enemies into gummy bears?
Firstly, unfortunately I am not Xelnath.
Secondly, I’d like to say that we really appreciate the calm and constructive way you made this thread. Awesome.
I want to take some time to clarify our perspectives on Lulu, why we’re doing what we’re doing now, and what we plan to do moving forward.
We are genuinely happy (and excited) that Lulu can be a mid lane Support champion who brings different strengths than other popular mid laners – especially in terms of potential team compositions.
When Lulu can be brought mid lane to help build a team composition around say protecting an allied Vayne, that’s super cool. In fact, this type of champion and team composition diversity is something we’d like to see a lot more of.
One of the most common criticisms is that due to the Support utility scaling we added in the new season, mid lane Lulu makes herself and her teammates super fast, and that that is a bad / annoying thing. We actually think it makes the game more interesting and gives players different reasons to pick and play different champions. Not every champion should need to bring a ton of damage and blow everything up. Some champions bring other strengths to the table.
We don’t just hate any and all Supports that are played in mid lane.
In Lulu’s case, we are not happy with the primary reason for her being picked in mid lane being that she is a safe, reliable laner who bullies a large majority of other mid lane champions. This is true of any champion in any role. When a champion’s job in the game is to make sure other champions don’t get a chance to participate in the game, there’s a problem.
Another common historical case people bring up is mid lane Janna, which is perfectly reasonable. The primary issue with Janna at the time was that she created a very un-interactive laning phase by continuously charging up her Q to just wave clear and force enemies under their turret which drastically reduced the potential viable picks in that lane.
At the end of the day, we’d prefer if Support mid laners were being brought for their unique Supportive strengths such as protecting /enhancing their allies. It’s really awesome when these type of picks increase champion diversity rather than stifle it.
These nerfs were directed at reigning in some of Lulu’s more abusive lane harass patterns – especially when she snowballs ahead.
Although her laning harass patterns have risk and interactivity in the duo lane, the same rules don’t always apply in solo lanes. In fact, against many other champion in the solo lane, Lulu can freely harass them with little to no repercussions at higher range while they have no way to interact with her.
Once again, it’s an unfortunate truth, but many gameplay patterns that work well in a certain lane can be toxic for game health when brought to other lanes. This is something we always actively design around.
We agree we failed to ensure that she was still equally as viable in her traditional role as a bottom lane Support for this patch.
Normally we would either A) understand we significantly affected her bot lane viability and make compensatory buffs or B) confirm that we did not hurt her viability in her traditional role.
We simply ran out of the normal amount of analysis time and data gathering we would need to accurately execute on this.
To be clear, this does not mean that she is not viable as a bot lane Support currently. It simply means that we failed to ensure that her bot lane power was still up to par with this release. It still might be, but either way it’s something we need to look into and work on if needed.
We will be following up by doing internal analysis on her status as a bot lane Support and take action in an upcoming patch if necessary.
This is something that is currently ongoing. Lulu’s current viability as a bot lane Support is something we’re taking a hard look at to make sure we didn’t mess anything up here. If she is no longer viable in her intended role, you can expect we’ll be making changes until she is.
Anyway, I know it was long, but I really wanted to address everything I’ve been reading / hearing. Once again, thanks a ton for the constructive posts.
Sometimes we will have to outright push a champion out of an off-role because of the game health problems they present and the costs / tradeoffs we would have to make to their primary role to make the off-role healhty. We’re definitely going to try much harder to find room for these off builds to work, but I can’t promise that we will always be able to deliver on that.
Statikk: That’s a pretty good point. Our main thought process around nerfing E damage was that it was the most un-interactive part of her kit (click a dude, deal damage to dude) and that ultimately we would like to move power from there to other parts of her kit that have more interesting gameplay.
We also largely believed that nerfing her Q base damage would cripple her viability as a Support, but we may be wrong on that?
Statikk: When we say overly “reliable,” we really just mean we think the champion is too good against too many things. Mid lane Lulu wins the majority of her lane matchups and outright crushes many of them.
That is a lot different than being reliable as a protector or source of CC for her teammates, we’re fine with that. We just don’t like her being able to have such a huge advantage in lane against almost any champion.
I guess our take is that mid lane Lulu should be taken as a way to give a ton of Movement Speed to an ally and a way to protect a high priority target on her team (or synergize with an initiator for a wombo combo).
The problem isn’t that Lulu doesn’t die in the lane, it’s that she consistently harasses out her opponents and forces them to back or risk dying while maintaining her relatively high safety.
Statikk: Yeah I figured this would be coming up, because it’s a legit argument. I don’t want to derail too much because this is a thread about Lulu, but Renekton is definitely an issue and as you can see in the latest patch notes we are trying to off load some of his early lane dominance elsewhere.
Don’t want to go too in-depth here, but we basically feel if we nerf Renetkon, a new bully will just rise up in his place that is potentially even more unhealthy for the game due to our generic fighter designs. Our current approach in one of the upcoming patches is to take a look at some of the top lane champions we think would make top lane more interesting and give them buffs so they can better compete with champions like Renekton.
A more holistic approach to fully solve the “Fighter” issue is to make our fighters have more defined strengths and weaknesses both in lane matchups and in overall team / game strategy, but that’s a project that would take a long time to finish.
We recently got the announcement that Twitch would be getting a visual update, but what about his voice? Good news, the stinky rat gets to keep his awesome accent!
Riot Entropy: It is indeed the same gentleman. We brought him back to expand Twitch’s script from the original nine lines to 80+ interactions. The actor has a lot of range, so we were able to capture more depth of character this time around. The lines you heard in the showcase are on the manic “high-strung” end of the spectrum you’d expect from him in the middle of a deadly game of cat-and-mouse… or rat-and-splat?
Riot Entropy: There are some subtle notes of Rattigan. He’s more trying to be refined and sophisticated by denying what he is though. Twitch loves who he is, it’s just that Twitch’s idea of what’s good is very different from ours.
Riot’s Lead Game Designer steps into the forums to answer some burning questions LoL and WoW fans. No Lissandra buffs announced (yet).
(Well, that isn’t at all what the Summoner was “asking”, but it’s the most civil interpretation I could come up with.)
But maybe where I can contribute is helping make sure you guys understand our overall philosophy for why we make the changes we do (or those that we don’t!). I want to do what I can personally to get you all bought into our design direction and also make sure we understand your point of view when we disagree.
I love that Riot aspires to be so player focused. Any of you who have known me for a long time can understand why I’d want to be a part of that.
Ghostcrawler: I understand where you’re coming from, but again, this is an example of conflating the direction of a team with the influence of one person. The direction of League comes from Riot and it comes from you guys. The same was true of WoW during my tenure there, and I can’t imagine it could have changed that quickly since I left.
That said, when you attribute the work of so many to so few or even one guy, it’s really not fair to the literally hundreds of people who work together to make a game like WoW or LoL. It’s really not possible in a game of this size in an environment this collaborative for any one person to have that much of an in influence.
Ghostcrawler: We’re not big on titles here, so I wouldn’t worry about it. Morello works closely with the champion and core teams and he has been a point of contact on that stuff for you guys forever so I would keep using him. We’re friends and we work closely together. Anything you say to either of us will get to the other dude.
Ghostcrawler: I think this is a fair criticism. At the time, we were trying to solve a problem where certain classes were stacked and others just didn’t get to participate at all. But homogenization is absolutely a design risk, especially in a game like League with so many champions.
For the record, I think homogenization stinks, and I invite you guys to absolutely call us on it when it happens.
Ghostcrawler: In many industries, including this one, experience counts for a lot. At the end of the day, you need to ship a product (as lame as that makes it sound), and there are things you learn about how to get that done. I’m not in charge of the direction of League — nobody is really. I do have sixteen years of experience in building teams, improving communication, building consensus, helping to level up junior designers, and hiring talented new ones. Those are all important components of leadership and ultimately that’s what Riot said they liked.
I’ve said this before as well, but one of the secrets of this business is that good ideas are cheap. Knowing how to ship a good game is what is really valuable.
Ghostcrawler: Are you sure you aren’t confusing me with someone else? I take player opinions very seriously, even when I disagree with them. It’s harder on Twitter, where the limitations of the medium make it hard to say things like “You have a point, but…” or “Our goals are the same, and we just disagree on whether a proposed change will accomplish those goals.”
Now, some players might say “You didn’t make this change I wanted, so how can you really call yourself responsive to player concerns?” It’s not really possible to make everyone happy all the time, and when you try, you can end up with mistakes… like homogenization!
Previous PBE Updates from Patch 4.5 Cycle:
Note: The animation is being changed, because the current one looks too similar to Aether Wing Kayle‘s ultimate.
Previous PBE Updates from Patch 4.5 Cycle:
Note: This change is due to the recent nerfs to flat armor seals. If you’re unfamiliar with those, click here.
Note: This is a revert on the most recent PBE buff to Graves. Live values are 140/250/360.
Note: If you want to learn why these changes were made, click here.
I know this will make a few waves, but we have hit some choppy waters along the way with the Atlantean Syndra skin, and have decided to err on the side of caution and pull her from the PBE until we’re 100% sure she’s ready.
We’re very sorry about this. To avoid people accidentally crashing, for anybody that has already purchased Atlantean Syndra, we will remove her from your accounts and give you a refund.
Once she’s ready to ship, and coming along swimmingly, we’ll make her available on the PBE to test again!
Thanks for the understanding, folks. Please accept this bad haiku:
Water orbs unleash
A deluge upon her foes
So much untapped power
Previous PBE Updates from Patch 4.5 Cycle:
Click here to get context on why these changes are being made.
Want to learn why Pantheon is being nerfed? Click here.
Rengar has recently received a major rework. Click here to get the details.
Bonetooth Necklace has received an icon update for each of its Trinket variants. These icons represent Scrying Orbs, Sweepers and Ward Totems, color-respectively. If you want to learn more about this change, click here.
Here‘s a short preview of the skin if you’re unfamiliar with it. Which you really should be!
Previous PBE Updates from Patch 4.5 Cycle:
IMPORTANT: All Champions except Gragas and Ziggs gain 4 Base Armor at level 1! This is a compensation for the nerfs to Armor Seals!
Ghost – Grants 40% Movement Speed, increased from 27%
Flash – Grants Bonus 20% Movement Speed for 1 second after using Flash
Teleport: Grants Bonus 30% Movement Speed for 3 seco30% movement speed bonus for 3 seconds after use.
Note: This is a supplementary change to the nerfs to Lifesteal Quinttessences
Increased from 1.11% at level 18 to 1.67%
Increased from 2.7 MR at level 18 to 3.0
Increased from 0.31 Mana/5 to 0.33
Increased from 0.99 Mana/5 to 1.2
Increased from 1.67% CDR to 2.50%
Increased from 2.5% CDR at level 18 to 5%
Increased from 3.4% Attack Speed to 4.5%
Decreased from 2% Life Steal to 1.5%
Note: Feast (Offensive Mastery) is being buffed to compensate. See above.
A post popped up on the PBE community forums explaining the recent changes to Pantheon.
Pantheon’s one of the biggest benefactors we’ve seen from the recent spirit stone changes, and while we don’t innately dislike him as a jungler, we would like to both add some options for his opponents against his ganks and smooth out his historically lopsided power curve a bit.
The current changelist that’s on PBE is still very fresh and subject to tuning before it hits live, but here is the current full list of changes:
The passive changes are a straightforward modernization of the ability to make it reliably block the minions and monsters that Pantheon wants it to block.
W’s changes are aimed at power curve adjustment and I will be monitoring how much this makes his early ganks less brutal to weigh the gains vs. pain to Pantheon players.
R’s changes are a bit larger in scope and are trying to address a wider breadth of problems. The range reduction is there to allow opponents to ward more effectively versus jungle Pantheon, while the landing time increase is there to give opponents more time to react to an incoming Pantheon gank. The two together may be hurting Pantheon’s level 6 ganks too much, but I tend to go overboard with my initial changes and then tone it back with iterations when I get a better sense of what changes are actually accomplishing. The channel time reduction, on the other hand, is aimed at addressing Pantheon’s ult usability in teamfights and skirmishes. I’m hoping that this will give Pantheon some stronger options when using his ult more reactively, such as being able to escape dicey situations in enemy territory or quickly repositioning mid-teamfight. With this larger emphasis on mid-fight usability from his ult, I also wanted to reduce the late game cooldown so that he will realistically have it as a play making tool in almost every late game fight.
Just to reiterate, these changes are hot off the presses and are subject to go through some iteration before they hit live, but I didn’t want to leave you guys hanging without any context and missing pieces of the changelist.
Gragas has been dominating in competitive play and Solo Queue and is being taken down a notch. Not your usual nerfs this time – we get a full rework! (for better or worse)
Although Gragas in his inception was designed as an AP brawler mixing it up with the enemy, he has historically been played as a mid AP nuke/poker. While we were fine with this, the recent resurgence of Gragas as a top pick has brought to our attention the problems inherent in this playstyle.
Gragas currently possesses strengths of long range burst, tankiness and disengage- carried by AP ratios on Q and R being so high that they will effectively two-shot you. This combination of strengths do not make much sense (why do you need tankiness if you are a sniper? Etc.) and are unhealthy for the game.
However, since Gragas was never designed as a sniper, he does not have enough tools he needs to be a valued pick if he is not two-shotting people. Therefore, just nerfing his current damage numbers will ‘Olaf’ him (his win rates are already super low for most players). When we looked at Gragas as a character, it made much more sense to retain the tankiness while hitting the long range burst damage and grant him the tools to succeed while being in the thick of the fight, rather than turn him into a fragile long range sniper, hence the rework. We are attempting to reposition Gragas as more of a bruiser/tank that better reflects the fantasy of being a large drunk dude who gives no @#$@s while ramming into people.
The direction of the important changes are below, along with the points of feedback (both playing as and against) I am mainly looking for!
This lowers his effectiveness as a poke mage (since no one will be standing in the barrel radius for any amount of time) and gives more incentive to ‘combo’ his spells to knock people into a barrel.
The coolest play Gragas makes is when he uses Explosive Cask to knock the enemy into a Barrel that has been sitting outside and we wanted to incentivize that. The new effect on Body Slam will also synergize with this ability.
Do you feel that this ability gives enough payoff for hitting the charged barrel?
Is his prowess as a poke mage too strong for how much cc he brings?
The current Drunken Rage is a very dull spell that is simply a chore to upkeep. There are almost no cases where Gragas engages without this buff and there is very sparse gameplay associated with the trigger or the effect.
The new iteration hopes to create a more windowed effect to his DR and damage so there is richer play and counterplay. Also a Gragas who is drinking more often is a more awesome Gragas.
Does the spell grant appropriate defenses to allow Gragas to function in melee?
Is there a pronounced success/failure case when Gragas uses his W at the right time?
We have moved some power from Barrel Roll to Body Slam to give him the tools be valuable without needing to deal tons of damage. Gragas should be able to function as a mid-teamfight brawler that acts like a brick wall for enemies trying to get past him and gum up the fight.
Does the spell offer a good enough incentive for you to duke it out in melee?
Explosive Cask is already an awesome ability that requires mastery to use to full potential with amazing payoffs. However, currently it deals too much damage that dilutes its own strengths (You don’t care about where you knock the enemy if he just dies from the explosion).
We wanted the spell to be focused on its cool and unique strength – a huge radius ranged knockback.
Previous PBE Updates from Patch 4.5 Cycle: