(Testing a new way of formatting so I cut the introduction for fear of the Universe imploding.)
Red Post Collection
- Morello - Season 4 Changes
- Xelnath - Let’s talk Support
- Brackhar - Explaining the recent XP/IP reward changes for Custom Games
- Morello - Why was Zac nerfed so lightly in Patch 3.11?
- Lyte - Riot’s new philosophy on Player Behavior
- IronStylus - Sivir’s New Concept Previewed
- IronStylus - Pictures of Leona’s Sword
- Damage decreased from 200/325/450 to 150/275/400
- Damage increased from 20/40/60/80/100 to 20/45/70/95/120 ( reverted to live values )
- Damage increased from 400/500/600 ( +3.0 AD ) (+2.0 AP) over 2 seconds to 400/550/700 ( +3.75 AD ) ( +2.5 AP ) over 2.5 seconds
- Cooldown reduced from 60/55/50 to 60/52.5/45 seconds
- Base damage decreased from 57.6 to 57.2
- Base damage decreased from +3.5 to +3.1 per level
- Base mana decreased from 270 to 235
- Mana decreased from +45 to +35 per level
- Damage reduced from 80/125/170/215/260 to 65/110/155/200/245
- Slow increased from 24/28/32/36/40% to 35/40/45/50/55%
- Slow duration decreased from 2.5 to 2 seconds
- No longer grants bonus Attack Damage
- Now grants 30/45/60/75/90% bonus Attack Speed
- Bonus Lifesteal reduced from 9/12/15/18/21% to 8/10.5/13/15.5/18%
- Damage reduced from 100/160/220/280/340 to 100/145/190/235/280
- Cooldown increased from 9/8/7/6/5 to 12/11/10/9/8 seconds
- Now grants 10/25/40 Bonus Armor and Magic Resist passively
- Activation no longer grants bonus Resists and Armor Penetration
- Activation now grants 40/60/80 bonus Attack Damage
- Cooldown changed from 100 seconds 120/100/80 seconds
- Base Health increased from 360 to 400
- Base Movement speed increased from 335 to 340
- Base armor increased from 11 to 15
- Bonus movement speed increased from 60/70/80 to 80 at all ranks
- Damage reduced from 25/40/55/75/85 to 20/32/44/56/68
- Bonus movement speed decreased from 30/35/40/45/50% to 25/31.3/37.5/43.8/50%
CLARIFICATION ON SHYVANA CHANGES
CertainlyT: We aren’t making imminent changes to Shyvana’s Burnout. This datamine was another piece of Season 4 fighter testing bits of which I incorrectly promoted to the PBE (as seen with Garen). The plan was to pair it with some sexy changes to her dragon form.
FWIW our internal testing on all the changes currently shows the W you saw to be a bit too weak.
As to our overall view of Shyvana, I think she’s balanced but her Dragon Form doeesn’t feel sufficienly epic. I want Shyvana to be a bully, but a more moderate one early, in exchange for a lvl 16 dragon form where she becomes a literal raid boss, turning the enemy backline into a pile of charred corpses. Rez and run back.
Any news on Shyvana’s update?
CertainlyT: Testing a bunch of stuff. Nothing has proven perfect just yet. Shyvana will stay damage focused, but I think that she needs a) greater reach and b) a better best cast scenario in post-35 minute team fights.
- Cooldown is reduced by 3 seconds if Death Sentence strikes an enemy
- Cooldown increased from 18/16.5/15/13.5/12 to 20/18/16/14/12 seconds
RiotWenceslaus: You’ve seen them during the holidays, but many of you have been asking to spruce up your ward supply on non-seasonal occasions. We’ve heard you and we’re pleased to officially unveil the League’s first permanent ward skins for 640 RP, now on PBE.
This first run of wards is themed after some of your favorite League champions, so even if you get edged out in the draft, you can still show your champion pride wherever you’re laning. The next time you want to scout an inconveniently-placed patch of brush in style (or if you just can’t wait for another chance to check out Draven’s majestic moustache), now you can.
We’re rolling out a revamped Trades system that I’d like you all to hammer on. It’s a more robust system that we believe will serve your trade requests better.
The pain points we addressed were largely around the system’s reliability.
We addressed issues caused by several players attempting to trade simultaneously. Our new system will handle multiple users’ actions, both with a new Trades structure, and more clear messaging where there wasn’t any before.
While we were fixing some of the pain, we included some new features to make the experience a bit better.
-Greyed out and unclickable Trade buttons when the requester or the recipient doesn’t own either champion.
-New Error Messaging to communicate what is happening. [Not yet in]
1. is busy trading. Try again when their trade is complete.
2. has declined your trade request.
3. canceled the trade.
4. no longer has the champion you wanted. Try again.
-Accurate display of who your friend is playing on the Friends List after they make a trade.
-A trade is canceled when someone rerolls during their trading process, so people aren’t stuck with something they don’t expect.
All these changes aside, what we fundamentally wanted to accomplish was a reinstatement of player trust in making a Trade. Our engineers took the old system, cleaned it up, smoothed it out, gave it a mani-pedi, and got it in shape by way of 1980’s work-out montage. No player should ever fear trading champions again.
Please test the hell out of this thing, and send us your feedback on the forums. We’ll be watching and fixing based on your findings.
Thanks for your help, everyone!
Suggestion: Trading switches players’ select position rather than their Champions
That’s a really interesting idea. Though, that wouldn’t solve the issues of Trades not working well for ARAMs, and our intention was to make an already known system more reliable.
Will this new system allows us to trade again after an unsuccessful attempt?
With the new trade system, you WILL be able to request trades again to someone who declined you if you or that person’s champion has changed. So even if your champion didn’t change, if the person who declined you rerolled, you’d be able to trade him again.
If I own the Champion I wish to receive but the other person does not own mine, is the button grayed out for me as well?
RiotBrokenSword: Yes, it is. In order to trade, both players must own each champion. Works the same as before, but now we just save you the step of finding out you can’t trade before you make the request.
( Click on each skin’s name for a video preview. )
Pool Party Graves - 1350 RP ( 975 until September 22nd )
Graves finally found a squirt gun worthy of an outlaw: all new particle effects look like water, but sting worse than Singed’s “homemade” chlorine. His recall shows off one of four impressive dives on his way back to base. Apparently Smoke Screen also obscures hidden talents!
Pool Party Lee Sin - 1350 RP ( 975 until September 22nd )
Lee Sin’s got a breezy new summer style and strange knack for conjuring fruity coconut drinks out of nowhere. Just don’t challenge him to a game of Marco Polo—he doesn’t realize casting Sonic Wave is cheating.
Pool Party Leona - 1350 RP ( 975 until September 22nd )
Grab some shade under sunbathing Leona’s Shield of Daybreak if things get too hot in lane. Nothing quite like a little stun in the sun!
Pool Party Renekton - 1350 RP ( 975 until September 22nd )
Cull the Meek swimmers?! Renekton takes his lifeguard duties way too seriously. Hey gator, that’s not what the rescue buoy is for!
Flexible Bundle – Get all Four Skins + Pool Party Ziggs for 4200 RP ( 20% discount )
+ 30% discount on Champions missing ( 7413 RP for all 5 Champions + all Pool Party Skins )
Watch as Leona’s Solar blade comes to life in the forge of master swordsmith Tony Swatton!
Red Post Collection
Morello - Season 4 Changes
Xelnath - Let’s talk Support
Brackhar - Explaining the recent XP/IP reward changes for Custom Games
Morello - Why was Zac nerfed so lightly in Patch 3.11?
Lyte - Riot’s new philosophy on Player Behavior
IronStylus - Sivir’s New Concept Previewed
IronStylus - Pictures of Leona’s Sword
Morello: Mobility Creep has occurred, but I think this is spoken about as the problem as opposed to a symptom. The problem, in this case, is where we had champions not giving up anything when they contained mobility. This was especially rampant in 2011, but the problem is rarely the mobility itself and more the underlying design problems that lead to problematic mobility.
One example is how Vi’s ultimate was talked about a lot as “mobility creep.” I think the real problems occur there when there’s no meaningful recourse to that move, her being able to move far is fine – provided than when she does, you have actions that make sense to deal with her. Some of this is the CC immunity, some of this is her raw brawling power when she gets there. If some cost is paid, actually or strategically, then the skill can avoid this pitfall.
So, I think Mobility Creep isn’t a major issue – mobility tends to create interesting and dynamic fights and is fun to use – but the issue, like true damage, % HP damage and other mechanics we’ve done this with, is in how and where it is used.
I edited my post, but in the initial barrage of “there’s Morello – get him!” from me returning to the forums, I read yours too quickly. I did say melee ADC would be -better- this season, and they are, but I also claimed I didn’t think Season 3 would fully solve the problem. I think that’s been pretty accurate overall.
Now, let’s put this thread on a good note; let me tell you two must-haves for Season 4 to ship successfully in my mind;
We’re going to significantly improve, and ultimately fix, jungle and support gold flow. I feel this is one of the most painful areas of League, and one that can be fixed. A lot of the satisfaction in League is growing in power over time, getting items, and transitioning from early to late game with items. It’s definitely a problem that 2/5 of players don’t get to do this.
Season 4 changes will address this problem, and very likely throw balance into a tailspin for preseason. Eggs, omelettes, etc. We’ll work hard to get that fleshed out and tuned before S4 starts properly.
Wards and the map vision system need to be overhauled. This is part-and-parcel with the above as Support gold largely suffers due to ward gold burden, but there are a multitude of other problems like snowballing, few real interesting ward decision-making opportunities, and few people involved with the vision game. Details have to wait, but the new system will address these issues.
What are your plans for the Fighter class in Season 4?
Morello: Not ready to share details on this since things are really in flux, but to solve some of the meta-golemy nature of some fighters, and give them distinct places in a teamfight (ie; a team role if one is not present other than “be strong”).
Follow-up: So every Fighter will have a distinct purpose, i.e soak, DPS and so on?
Opinion on Kassadin, Zed, Ahri, Galio, Taric and Ziggs
Zed: A bit too strong, but want to see longer term effects of previous nerfs. Not against more.
Ahri: Solid – pretty close, but popular right now.
Galio: Tough to make room for in a team, but doesn’t have enough levers to balance. Needs light rework.
Taric: Same as above.
Ziggs: I think great in lane, does ??? late game in teamfights.
Why are some champions nerfed to the point where they’re no longer picked?
Morello: It is when we can’t simply buff them to be good or make small changes. Fighters (and why CertainlyT is focused on them!) are the biggest culprits of this, and tend to make this list more than others. Much of this is based around the schizophrenic goals and role fulfillment on fighters (which typically comes with low counter-play) and them deriving value from nothing but raw power. Not only aware, but one of our biggest open sores that’s very hard to solve without a LOT of disruption.
Do you feel DoT (Damage-over-time) Champions are in a good spot?
Morello: I’m not sure, actually – it’s something I should talk more with the team about. I’m a bit surprised with how far this type of champion has fallen out of flavor and want to get word from guys with boots on the ground here.
What’s your opinion on Miss Fortune?
Why isn’t Ahri as mobile as the currently dominant picks? ( Zac, Kha’Zix, Zed )
Morello: I think it’s a cost-benefit thing. If Ahri does what they do, and is mobile, then there’s no contest. If Ahri is highly mobile but has some cost associated it that allow Annie and Brand to compete, then that’s great. Udyr is the Fighter example of where this works.
Annie’s actually in a good spot, but agreed Brand is in a bit of a lull due to this.
Xerath iterates on Morello‘s promises to fix support gold income.
For those of you who missed it, I want to draw attention to this post.
These two systems have been the major project that Xypherous and I have been working on for the last 3-4 months. This has been a huge effort, in terms of collecting data, experimenting and generally playing mad scientist while attempting to preserve the core of what makes Summoner’s Rift fun.
There’s four huge topics here:
- Jungle gold income
- Support gold income
- Support expenditures on warding
- The effects of using wards to gain vision
Trying to hit all 4 cohesively in one point is madness, however, they are all HIGHLY interconnected. So while this thread is about the overlap between all four, expect to see breakout threads from myself or other designers discussing each topic individually to gather focused feedback.
For this post, I want to talk about the relationship between support income, warding and the problems these two systems are causing with each other:
What are the issues?
- Supports are expected to not last hit, thus gaining no income
- Supports are expected to shoulder most of the gold burden for purchasing wards
- Supports are expected to roam the map and ward
- Supports are expected to buy expensive activated items
- Supports are expected to be effective without gold revenue
- Supports are often tied to the Marksman carry
- Supports never get to achieve an endgame fantasy due to losing all of their income to vision expenditures
- Wards are necessary to protect the sanctity of laneing from persistent Jungler aggression
- Wards are necessary to observe important locations and objective
- Wards cost gold, from the character least equipped to afford them
- Wards are the only option for revealing a specific area to move forward safely
- Wards used in the previously mentioned way linger for a long time (3 minutes!!)
- Wards are so important, players feel entitled to having the map warded without contributing
Wow! This is a lot!!
No kidding. This is not a small set of problems. So to kick off this discussion, help me out:
- What do you think are the problems with support income?
- How much gold do you think supports need over the course of a 50 minute game (hint: I know the answer, but tell me what you think…)
- If we were to give more gold to supports, in what kind of situations would you expect to be getting more gold?
- How do we get other players to recognize the power of wards and the vision they provide?
- Are all wards too powerful? Are just pink wards too powerful?
- Should the lowest income character shoulder the highest consumable expenditures in the game?
- Are the expectations on a support player too high?
Summary on Community Feedback
- You guys generally agree its unfair that supports both earn less and spend more
- Think it might be fair if they earned equal amounts as laners but spent more on wards (relative to laners)
- Are concerned that even if income was fixed, supports would still spend 100% of gold on wards
- Feel that there’s not enough interactions in the warding system right now
- Believe we should look into ways to let non-supports get some vision in a way that doesn’t restrict their item builds
X-Posted on EUW.
Why do Custom games no longer grant IP? Read below to find out!
I wanted to provide a bit of context for these changes. Before I begin though, let me reiterate the current restriction:
- IP/XP for Custom Games are no longer rewarded unless there are half as many human players as the map was designed for (5 for SR, CS, and HA; 3 for TT)
- It’s still possible to play custom games any number of players (as long as it’s not been restricted for load reasons)
The reason we did this was, as some of you had suspected, a reaction to players using bots to farm games for IP/XP. While in an ideal world we’d just ban the accounts and move on, the problem wasn’t that people were using these bots on their main accounts to accrue ip/xp. Instead they were exploiting the refer a friend program by creating new bot accounts, leveling them up as referrals, and then giving another account the IP/RP rewards (which in turn they’d launder via other means). This made targeted bans not an effective solution, so instead we had to tackle the problem at its source. This wasn’t a limited issue either; check out this report showing the distribution of game end times in NA for the month of July: http://imgur.com/wLFwRBq
Note that we were seeing over 40% of our games end at 6 minutes, and those games were almost completely one player bot games. Those bot accounts would immediately queue up after completing a game and repeat the cycle, which in addition to the rewards issues was also putting a good bit of load on our system.
It’s unfortunate that this change ended up hitting players who were playing legitimate games, but our hope was that the affected player size would be very small and primarily only impact people doing things like testing out new champions. This thread and others have brought some light to a legitimate play pattern that we didn’t anticipate would be a main form of engagement, and that’ll cause some conversations on our end about what the next step forward here should be. It was our intention to evaluate the success of the changes later this week anyway, so once we have that data we’ll be able to make an informed decision on if we can be more lax on the restriction.
Isn’t the main issue the Refer-a-Friend system?
Click here for a preview of Patch 3.11.
- Adjusted passive chunk drops to be more contestable by enemies
- If an enemy champion is within 1000 units of Zac, his chunks will spawn in a contestable zone between him and his opponent (this isn’t a change, but is listed for clarification)
- Increased the range at which champions cause chunks to be contestable (fly away from Zac) to 1000 (from 700)
- Slightly increased the distance contestable chunks travel from Zac
- Chunks are now credited to whoever is closest to them in the event that both Zac and an enemy champion are present (rather than automatically going to Zac)
- Reduced chunk invulnerability time to 0.25 seconds (from 0.75)
- Chunk invulnerability now applies to both Zac and enemies (previously only applied to enemies – Zac now has to wait 0.25 seconds before he can absorb his chunks)
- Zac now has an increased chunk pickup range and bypasses the chunk invulnerability delay timer during Let’s Bounce
Morello: These nerfs are conservative as to not obliterate Zac in what will be the final patch for World Finals. We did want to nerf his power, not overdo it and remove a big staple in a number of team lineups (instead, we want to allow more variety in options).
We likely could have gone a little harder on Zac nerfs, but for the worlds patch, we didn’t want to risk of overdoing it. If, after worlds, Zac’s still pushing out other options, then we’ll hit him again.
Here are a couple relating articles regarding Lyte‘s quotes on Player Behavior in-game:
- Player Behavior, Matchmaking, Permabans and Tribunal-related Systems
- Positive/Negative Players and State of Tribunal
Helping Players improve rather than punishing them
Lyte: We’re currently working on a new solution for Champion Select problems, but are doing research on Honor and where we want to take it in the future. We agree that usage has gone down, although there’s still a very healthy amount of Honors handed out in Normal Blind Pick, Co-op vs Bots and Howling Abyss; however, there’s less Honor being handed out in Ranked Teams and Ranked (partially because premade teams don’t often give each other Honor). We’re not ready to talk about the future of Honor yet, but we’ll start once we finish working on Champion Select.
I don’t agree that discussing the origin of toxic behavior is an excuse. I agree that damage has been done whether a player is having a bad day or whether they are consistently toxic; however, understanding the origin of the toxic behavior allows us to better address the behavior. For example, does a player who is the most awesome, positive player in the community for 9999 games and happens to have 1 bad game, should they be permabanned? This is an extreme example, but illustrates why understanding the origin of the toxic behavior can help us address it in an appropriate way.
We have considered different types of ‘punishments’ for players such as limiting queues or limiting IP, but right now we’re focusing on Champion Select. We’ve also taken a pretty drastic shift in our approach to player behavior over the last year, and we’d prefer rewards and incentives rather than punishments. As an example, let’s say we had a game where players could share cookies, or be selfish and eat all the cookies themselves. We’d prefer players to share cookies, but instead of punishing players for being selfish and eating all the cookies, we could reward players with an additional half cookie if they shared the cookie with others. We truly believe that if you make it easy for players to be good and do the right thing, they do.
We’re not resistant to simply implementing solutions, especially with Leaver/AFK. There’s just a lot of data and experience from other games that solutions like a Vote-Kick are extremely abused and often considered grave mistakes when the studios tried them. I generally prefer to go with the data, and not make the same mistakes over and over again
Don’t you already ban people who abuse the report function?
Lyte: You’re right, there are bans for report-abusers; however, how many negative behaviors have we created in players? After this feature goes live, some percentage of players will now abuse the report system to try to get some returns and end up being banned. Is this a new demographic that wouldn’t have been banned otherwise, or were they toxic in some other way to begin with? If it’s a brand new demographic that is now being banned, that’s a significant cost to the feature.
Suggestion: Receive notification when you’re being “muted” in-game
Lyte: A player recently mentioned this idea to me, and I thought it was pretty interesting; however, what is the intended goal of such a feature? Theoretically, the hope is that if a toxic player is verbally abusive or harassing someone that the pop-up or feedback that others in the game have muted them would curb or stem the behavior; however, is there a chance that the pop-up or feedback itself would frustrate and piss the player off even more? Maybe the player will vent even harder at other players that haven’t muted him yet.
Consider the current alternative: Right now, players can mute someone without sending them a pop-up or notification. A toxic player might continue venting or ranting and realize that they aren’t getting a response, so they stop and move on–there’s a chance they may learn that venting or ranting really doesn’t do anything valuable for the team. But if you give them feedback and notification that they are getting through and annoying someone, maybe the pop-up or feedback even encourages them to keep acting this way and treat the pop-up as a “victory” of sorts that they irritated someone so much they actually muted them.
Now consider an alternative scenario: What if you’re a positive player, trying to hold your team together with some sportsmanlike chat. Then this player gets a pop-up from a toxic player saying that they muted him–what does that player experience feel like?
Interesting idea, but lots to consider.
Following the not-so-recent discussion on Sivir’s visual rework, we now have an actual concept art to admit love to… in a completely Platonic way, of course.
IronStylus: Yup. Here ya go. This is the final concept we worked from when building her model. This is also what people saw when we did the Relaunch panel, with a little bit of cleanup and a better background added in.
I know a lot of people saw a picture of an image on screen. Hopefully this gives you something a little bit easier to read! Pretty messy in a lot of places however. A couple things have changed since we did this concept though, and more might when we get additional feedback. But since this image is out there publicly, I thought it’d be nice for others to see.
Above you’ll find a video of the actual weapon.
That sword looks dangerous!
Tony was telling me that this was the most complicated design they ever made. It was also extremely dangerous due to all the points! I apologized profusely for being a pain in the ass for designing it with a giant hold in the middle of it.
Pics or it didn’t happen!
Some shots of the sword:
The following champions are free-to-play until September 17th!
- Janna - 1350 IP / 585 RP
- Twisted Fate - 1350 IP / 585 RP
- Twitch - 3150 IP / 790 RP
- Xin Zhao - 3150 IP / 790 RP
- Cassiopeia - 4800 IP / 880 RP
- Leona - 4800 IP / 880 RP
- Riven - 4800 IP / 880 RP
- Elise - 6300 IP / 975 RP
- Lucian - 6300 IP / 975 RP
- Rengar - 6300 IP / 975 RP
Enjoy the following champions and skins at a discount until September 13th!
- Hecarim – 487 RP
- Orianna – 440 RP
- Sion – 292 RP
Grim Reaper Karthus - 487 RP
Lord Mordekaiser – 487 RP
Pharaoh Nasus – 260 RP
Missed any recent updates? Check here!
Riot teases New Champion, an Elemental Dragon! PBE Update: Visual & Balance changes to Garen, Better Menus, Creator Viktor and Minion VFX || Rioters discuss Garen’s number tweaks and New Design and Scarizard talks glass-cannon Rengar and Sustain Necklace
Visual update for Garen || Patch 3.11 Notes – Changes to Draven, Galio and Zac, 3v3 and Dominion Balance & New Spectator Mode Features || New Minion Effects, News on Rengar, Nika leaves Riot, Cosplay Pictures from PAX, tweaks to Season 3′s Rewards and the latest Sale!
Patch 3.10A – Riven jumps over walls, Nerfs to BotRK, Phage Reworked; PBE Update: Balance & New Turret UI; Dunkmaster Darius teased at Gamescom, New Skins & Lucian in Store, Scruffy explains Skarner changes & the latest Sale!
Pool Party Graves, Leona, Lee Sin and Renekton on the PBE, IronStylus tells the story of Leona’s skin, Lucian Spotlight & Making Video, No more stealth for Rengar, State of Taric and Massive changes to Skarner!