Home > LoL News, PBE News, Red Posts, Riot News > PBE Update: Context for Ahri Rework + New Xerath Kit, Rammus Texture Update, Changes to Ziggs and Zyra & Cheaper ults || Rioters answer your questions about Ahri, Heimerdinger and Rammus, CertainlyT with New Zyra kit

PBE Update: Context for Ahri Rework + New Xerath Kit, Rammus Texture Update, Changes to Ziggs and Zyra & Cheaper ults || Rioters answer your questions about Ahri, Heimerdinger and Rammus, CertainlyT with New Zyra kit

October 11th, 2013

xerath heimer banner
PBE Update

Red Post Collection



 PBE Update










Missile_BarrageMissile Barrage ( R )

  • Cooldown increased from 1.2 seconds at all ranks to 2
  • Base damage decreased from 120/190/260 to 100/180/260













Mark of the Storm ( Passive )

  • Passive now reads: “All of Kennen’s abilities now add a mark of the storm” instead of every tooltip saying that the ability “adds a mark of the storm”
  • Kennen’s Mark of the Storm ( passive ) now lasts 6.25 seconds up from 6.






Solar_FlareSolar Flare ( R )

  • Mana cost reduced from 100/150/200 to 100 at all ranks




   Master Yi


Meditate_newMeditate ( W )

  • Mana cost lowered from 50/65/80/95/110 to 50 at all ranks






Tormented_SoilTormented Soil ( W )  

  • Now reads “Curses an area for 5 seconds. Enemies on the cursed ground take magic damage equal to 20/32.5/45/57.5/70 (+0.2) plus 3/3/3/3/3% of their missing Health (capped at 80/80/80/80/80 versus minions and monsters) every second.”
  • Damage lowered from 25/40/55/70/85 to 20/32.5/45/57.5/70
  • No longer grants MR reduction
  • Now does 3% missing HP every second.






Shadow_DashShadow Dash ( E )

  • Range increased from 575 to 600  ( see this for more info ).





WishWish ( R )

  • Mana cost reduced from 100/175/250 to 100 at all ranks





Carrion_RenewalCarrion Renewal ( Passive )






Spinning_SlashSpinning Splash ( E )

  • Cooldown now only reduced when Tryndamere crits champions instead of anything.






Chaos_StormChaos Storm ( R )

  • Mana cost reduced from 125/175/225 to 100 at all ranks






Overwhelming Power ( Passive )

  • Xerath gains % magic penetration ( 4% at level 4/5/6, 5% at 7, 6% at 8/9, 7% at 10, 9% at 11, 10% at 12, 12% at level 13 , 14% at 14, 16% at 15, 19% at 16, 22% at 17. and 26% at 18 )
  • Every 10 seconds, Xerath’s next basic attack restores 4% of his maximum mana. Attacking an emey champion restores 3x that amount instead.


Arcanopulse ( Q )

Mana cost: 70/80/90/100/110 || Cooldown:  7/6.5/6/5.5/5 seconds

  • Xerath charge and then fires a beam of energy, dealing 70/110/150/190/230 ( +.85 AP ) magic damage to all enemies hit. Charging the spell increases it’s range.



Cosmic Strike  ( W )

Cooldown: 14/13/12/11/10 seconds || Mana cost: 100/110/120/130/140

  • Xerath calls down a blast of arcane energy, dealing 50/85/120/155/190 ( +.6 AP ) magic damage to all enemies within the target area, slowing them by 10% for 3 seconds. Enemies in the center of the blast take 60% extra damage and are slowed by 35% instead.


Spellshere ( E )

Mana cost: 60/65/70/75/80 || Cooldown: 13/12.5/12/11.5/11

  • Xerath unleases and orb of rraw magic, dealing 100/140/180/220/260 ( .6 AP ) magic damage. The orb explodes on contact, stunning it’s target for 1/1.25/1.5/1.75/2 seconds.


Ascension ( R )

  • Xerath ascends to his true form, briefly gaining arcane vision of a large area around himself. He becomes rooted in place and his basic abilities are disabled, but he gains 4 shots of very long distance magic artillery. Fire these shots off with left or right mouse button. The effect lasts up to 7 seconds or until deactivated.
  • While Ascension is active, Xerath takes 10/20/30% less damage. He cannot be moved by displacement effects, but they briefly stun him.
Arcane Barrage

Xerath bombards a target area with explosive energy, dealing 150/200/250 ( .45 AP ) magic damage to all enemies hit.

  • Range: 2900/3600/4500
  • Mana Cost: 100/150/200
  • Cooldown: 150/135/110







Mega_Inferno_BombMega Inferno Bomb ( R )

  • Now deals double damage to minions.






Deadly_BloomDeadly Bloom ( Q )

  • Range reduced from 825 to 800


Rampant_GrowthRampant Growth ( W )

  • Range increased from 825 to 850
  • Passive cooldown reduction reduced from 4/8/12/16/20% to 2/4/6/8/10%



General Changes


Dominion / Crystal Scar
  • The global buff NO LONGER reduces self-healing/regen by 20%.


General Item Changes



  • Combine cost increased by 100g – total cost now 950
  • Due to above change, price of ALL KINDLEGEM build paths increased by 100g – Zeke’s, Spirit Visage, Spirit of Ancient Golem, Shurelya’s Rev.


Crystal Scar and Twisted Treeline Item Changes


Grez's_Spectral_Lantern_item  Grez’s Spectral Lantern

  • Attack damage reduced from 20 to 15
  • Cost increased by 200


The_Lightbringer_itemThe Lightbringer

  • Total cost from 2425 from 2425 to 2125
  • Damage decreased from 50 to 20
  • Armor increased from 20 to 25
  • Lifesteal increased from 12% to 15%
  • Now grants 200 hp
  • Pickaxe in item recipe replaced with Ruby Crystal


Twin_Shadows_itemTwin Shadows ( changes compared to the SR version )

  • Cost reduced by 200
  • Ability power lowered from 40 to 30
  • MR lowered to 30 from 40
  • Cooldown lowered to 60 seconds from 120 seconds


Hextech_Sweeper_itemHextech Sweeper

  • Total cost increased from 1920 to 2300
  • AP lowered from 50 to 40
  • Health reduced from 300 to 250
  • Cooldown reduction increased from 10% to 20% and is no longer Unique
  • 10% Movement speed bonus removed
  • Now builds out of a Fiendish Codex instead of Two Amplifying Tomes


Blackfire_Torch_itemBlackfire Torch

  • Now Grants 10% movement speed


Context (+Additional upcoming changes)




Summary: Charm has had its mana cost changed to a flat amount at all levels (higher at lower levels, lower at max level), but now increases the magic damage Ahri deals to the target. Essence Theft now heals her for a specific amount based on the number of enemies she hits with her passive-enhanced spell, as opposed to getting straight spell vamp. Fox Fire now deals less damage when every wisp hits the same target, and now counts as an area-of-effect damage source for the purposes of Spell Vamp and Rylai’s Crystal Scepter. Spirit Rush’s base damage and AP ratios have been reduced in addition to having its use time limit reduced.

Context: Ahri is a champion with a lot of strengths and few weaknesses – given her high versatility and reliability, she can regularly apply a lot of general pressure upon her opponents from relative safety. Ahri’s strengths should be much better defined than they currently are. These changes give Ahri players (and her opponents) clear areas of mastery that differentiate the good Ahris from the great Ahris (heh). Our core focuses are:

  • Make Ahri’s default lane patterns more clear, so both Ahri and her opponents can make plays around them.
  • Make Ahri’s “all in” gameplay more closely tied with landing Charm to establish Charm as Ahri’s “kiss of death” that needs to be avoided, as well as lower her threat/presence while Charm is on cooldown.
  • Keep Ahri’s core gameplay intact while trimming away strength from the low-gameplay patterns that don’t feel cunning.





Summary: Corki’s base attack speed has been reduced. Additionally, Missile Barrage’s base damage has been reduced at earlier ranks while the cooldown between missile shots has been increased. The cooldown between missile shots can no longer be reduced by cooldown reduction, but CDR will still affect how quickly you can gain missile ammo.

Context: Overall, we like the direction we pushed Corki toward with Trinity Force, but he’s now too overwhelming to play against. Here we’re reducing excess power in a few areas: by reducing his base attack speed, this puts him more in line with other similar spell-based ADCs. Reducing Missile Barrage’s base damage at early levels will help tone down Corki’s currently overwhelming level 6 power spike. Finally, the increase of the cooldown between missile shots ensures Missile Barrage is a powerful sustained damage tool, rather than a burst damage source.


  • Base Attack Speed reduced

Missile_BarrageMissile Barrage ( R )

  • Base damage reduced at earlier ranks
  • Cooldown between missile shots increased
  • Cooldown between missile shots can no longer be reduced by Cooldown Reduction (Cooldown Reduction still affects how quickly you gain missile ammo)



  Jarvan IV

Context: This change forces Jarvan to be more accurate with his Demacian Standard / Dragon Strike combo while giving opponents some breathing room when trying to dodge it.


Jarvan's Combo

Dragon Strike / Demacian Standard ( Q+E )

  • Moderately reduced Jarvan’s knockup collision radius




Context: Similar to the mana cost changes we’ve made to other higher skill ultimates, Leona’s next in line.


Solar_FlareSolar Flare ( R )

  • Mana cost reduced to a flat amount at all levels (significantly lower than max level mana costs)



   Master Yi

Context: Our original reasons for having Meditate’s mana cost scale so high no longer exist anymore, as they more specifically referred to AP Yi bullying lanes, or meditate refreshing multiple times in a fight.


Meditate_newMeditate ( W )

  • Mana cost reduced to a flat amount at all levels (significantly lower than max level mana costs)




Summary: Tormaneted Soil no longer reduces magic resistance per tick, instead it deals additional damage based on an enemy’s missing health. Morgana should deal roughly the same amount of overall damage, although there will be variations due to how her new Tormented Soil works.

Context: This change is more of a modernization for Morgana’s Tormented Soil by rewarding her for being continuously aggressive with landing her Dark Bindings. Specifically we wanted to to reinforce Morgana’s standard damage combo of Dark Binding to Tormented Soil, rather than the “ideal” combo of using Tormented Soil’s magic resistance reduction to make Dark Binding deal more damage.



 Tormented Soil ( W )

  • No longer applies a Magic Resist reduction debuff
  • Base damage per second decreased slightly (to accomodate other changes)
  • Additionally deals a percentage of an enemy’s missing Health as magic damage every second (capped at a flat amount versus minions and monsters)
  • Damage application cadence increased





  • Texture Update!

Credits to SkinSpotlights





Context: Rengar’s leap out of stealth has insufficient warning for his target, so we changed him to destealth at the beginning of his leap instead of throughout its duration in order to give his target a fighting chance.


Thrill_of_the_HuntThrill of the hunt ( R )

  • Rengar now de-stealths at the beginning of his leap when attacking a target from out of invisibility.





Context: Shadow Dash has had a fairly large start and end radius to make the spell more forgiving to land. We no longer believe this is necessary as it makes Shadow Dash a bit too easy to land in those situations.


Shadow_DashShadow Dash ( E )

  • Collision radius has been reduced at the start and end points of the dash





Context: Similar to the Leona change which is similar to the previous mana cost changes. At this point I may just say Wish’s mana cost is too damn high.


WishWish ( R )

  • Mana cost reduced to a flat amount at all levels (significantly lower than max level mana costs)





Summary: Carrion Renewal now restores a percentage of Swain’s maximum mana on champion kill/assist rather than a flat amount. This will allow him to keep up his mana pools in lategame team fights.

Context: Despite being a champion that’s hard to stop when ahead, Swain players often find themselves failing endgame in a situation where they would otherwise succeed due to the unforgivable nature of Ravenous Flock’s mana ramp. We saw Carrion Renewal as a place to add strength without significantly impacting the phases of the game where Swain already excels. With this change, it’s possible for Swain players that focus on mana and durability to ‘off-tank’ during team-fights, utilizing the significant mana return from champion kills/assists to stay in engagements longer.


Carrion_RenewalCarrion Renewal ( Passive )

  • Now additionally restores a percentage of Swain’s maximum mana on Champion Kill/Assist





Summary: Syndra has had a number of useability improvements made to her abilities, where Scatter the Weak now indicates where a Dark Sphere will travel, and Unleashed Power will indicate how many Dark Spheres will be fired.


Scatter_the_WeakScatter the Weak ( E )

  • Range minorly increased
  • Dark Spheres now have arrow indicators to show the direction they will travel if hit by Scatter the Weak


Unleashed_PowerUnleashed Power ( R )

  • Now has a counter over the icon that tracks the number of Dark Spheres that will be fired






Noxious_TrapNoxious Trap ( R )

  • Fixed a bug where Noxious Traps gave experience on death





Context: We are trying to reduce the mobility of Tryndamere so he can’t just safely split push all day. We did, however, want to keep his mobility high in team fights, so we made Spinning Slash only reduce in cooldown when he critically strikes champions.


Spinning_SlashSpinning Splash ( E )

  • Cooldown now only reduced when Tryndamere crits champions instead of anything.





Context: Similar to the Soraka change, which was similar to the Leona change, which was similar to the…


Chaos_StormChaos Storm ( R )

  • Mana cost reduced to a flat amount at all levels (significantly lower than max level mana costs)





HemoplagueHemoplague ( R )

  • Fixed a bug where this ability sometimes prevented casting of Transfusion and Tides of Blood for longer than the spell’s 0.5 second cast animation.






Summary: Short Fuse has had its damage increased slightly. Bouncing Bomb can be cast at targets outside of max range but will only travel the set distance. Satchel Charge’s radius has been increased. Hexplosive Minefield and Mega Inferno Bomb are both more effective against minions, with Minefield not dealing decreased damage on multiple hits to minions and Mega Inferno Bomb dealing double damage to minions.

Context: We’ve improved Ziggs in terms of general utility while also trying to carve out his niche as a pushing / counterpushing champion more effectively. In this regard a lot of our changes are focused on the damage he deals to minions, but we’ve made some general damage buffs overall.


Short_FuseShort Fuse ( Passive )

  • Max damage increased


Bouncing_BombBouncing Bomb ( Q )

  • Bouncing Bomb can now be cast at targets outside of 850 range
  • When cast outside of max range will fire in the direction but only travel 850 range


Satchel_ChargeSatchel Charge ( W )

  • Radius increased


Hexplosive_MinefieldHexplosive Minefield ( E )

  • Does not do decreased damage on multiple hits to minions
  • Damage radius per mine increased


Mega_Inferno_BombMega Inferno Bomb ( R )

  • Now deals double damage to minions






Summary: Deadly Bloom’s damage has been reduced but her AP ratio has been increased. Rampant Growth’s passive cooldown reduction and range have been increased. The plants spawned from Rampant Growth have had their base damage reduced, but their base damage at later levels has been increased. We’ve also improved Zyra’s overall useability with enraging plants / transforming seeds into plants by spells.

Context: Our overall strategy here was to tone down Zyra’s early level poke damage and, while we are reducing some of her overall power, we also wanted to improve her ability to fluidly combo cast with seeds. Additionally, reducing the base damage of her spells while increasing the AP ratios are aimed at reducing her power as a support without hurting her capabilities as a mage.


Deadly_BloomDeadly Bloom ( Q )

  • Range minorly reduced
  • Damage reduced
  • AP ratio increased


Rampant_GrowthRampant Growth ( W )

  • Passive cooldown reduced
  • Plant base damage reduced at lower levels and increased at higher levels
  • Reduced the delay before seeds can be stepped on by enemies
  • Range minorly increased
  • Fixed a bug where seeds would very sometimes not be turned into plants by spells


StranglethornsStranglethorns ( R )

  • Stun no longer persists for some duration after the knockup ends.
  • Now properly enrages plants created within the bramble zone after Stranglethorns has been cast





Screen Tint for Stealth


– We’ve added a self-only screen tint when your champion is in stealth for Akali, Kha’Zix, Le Blanc, Shaco, Talon, Teemo, Twitch, Vayne and Wukong.


Attack Speed Slows


Summary: Unless an attack speed slow was attached to a movement impairing effect (IE: Nasus’ Wither), it was immune to cleanse or other forms of debuff removal. Now all attack speed slows can be cleansed and are treated like movement speed slows.

Context: Attack speed slows have been updated in order to have more consistent counterplay when it comes to their removal and application. Essentially we’re looking to treat all slows the same, whether they’re movement or attack speed based.


Affected Champions:

  • Malphite – Ground Slam
  • Gragas – Barrel Roll


Affected Items:

  • Warden’s Mail
  • Randiun’s Omen



Champions with CC-discarding ultimates:


Summary: The following champions will now be affected by crowd control abilities after they complete their dashes, where previously they discarded all forms of crowd control at the end. Their spells will still be unstoppable, but any crowd control abilities landed throughout will be applied after the spell completes. CC duration will tick down while a champion is mid-dash.

Context: We’re adding more counterplay for champions who have long-range dashes tied to their ultimates by making them succeptible to certain forms of crowd control after they complete a dash – like snares or stuns. Now if a teammate lands a snare in the middle of a champion’s dash, the ulting champion will complete the ability, but they’ll be snared at the end.


Affected Champions:

  • Jarvan IV’s cataclysm
  • Nocturne’s Paranoia
  • Vi’s Assault and Battery
  • Malphite’s Unstoppable Force
  • Hecarim’s Onslaught of Shadows



Explaining Ahri’s rework

Ahri banner

ricklessabandon, y u no use capital letters? ._.



[Eludeasaurus] Aren’t 7 seconds too short for several combo rotations?


ricklessabandon Button Rioter ricklessabandon: Numbers will be easier to talk about once she’s playable, but the 7 seconds is still a very wide window—you can do all three dashes, Orb of deception, and Fox-fire within the 4-second window of Charm’s damage amp. Going by our tests so far, 7 seconds is quite comfortable even if you want to space dashes out for Lich Bane procs (for example).

If anyone feels like this reduction cripples a certain playstyle, i’m interested in hearing about it.


ricklessabandon Button Rioter ricklessabandon: I currently associate ‘multiple rotations within an ult’ with Ahri’s patterns later in the game (once fox-fire is maxed out), but let’s keep an eye on this together — I’ll be spectating/playing games and taking feedback, you guys play her a bit on the PBE and give feedback. if this hurts a healthy playstyle of Ahri’s (and i think that her kiting patterns are healthy) then i’m happy to tune/revert this change. :3


ricklessabandon Button Rioter ricklessabandon: I understand the apprehension of time pressure here, but my feeling is that Ahri players won’t feel this much at all (I’ll definitely be watching for it though). The goal here was alleviate some of the idle pressure Ahri exerts when taking no action after her initial ult cast. Iin other words, once Ahri uses her first dash her opponents are forced to change their behavior/mentality in response while considering her likely next actions. Currently this lasts up to 10 seconds, which is a respectable amount of power from passivity.



[FromTXwithLove] What are the numbers behind the new Fox-fire?


ricklessabandon Button Rioter ricklessabandon: A ‘3-hit against one guy’ Fox-fire now does 80% of the old damage without Charm, and 96% of the old damage with, so not quite as drastic as 40% but it is noticeable. one cool thing about maxing Fox-fire first now is that the healing from Essence Theft isn’t based on spell damage, so you can still get big heals from using Orb of deception on a full minion wave even if your primary damage spell is Fox-fire. so, the spell lost a bit of its best-case intense pressure damage in exchange for a better healing pattern. I encourage you to try it out and let me know how it plays out. :3



Level 6 Burst Chart


ricklessabandon Button Rioter ricklessabandon: Oh, btw, for those interested in her damage comparisons to other magic damage mages and/or assassins, here’s some really basic comparisons for approximate level 6 damage:

These changes would put her ‘almost perfect all-in’ at level 6 at 454 (+204%AP) without landing Charm, and the ‘perfect all-in’ at 587 (+273%AP) when landing Charm. Both include Both hits from Q, all 3 hits from W, and 3 hits from R onto the desired target.

Compare to these other level 6 all-ins on live:

  • Ahri (live) – 575 (+285% AP) [with Charm], 515 (+250% AP) [without Charm]
  • Ahri (new) – 587 (+273% AP) [with Charm], 454 (+204% AP) [without Charm]
  • Annie – 465 (+215% AP) [this does not include any damage from Molten Shield or Tibbers’s aura]
  • Fizz – 420 (+305% AP) (+4% Missing Health)
  • Kassadin – 350 (+250% AP) [this is with one Nether Blade attack and a zero-stack Riftwalk]
  • Lissandra – 435 (+255% AP)
  • Lux – 650 (+205% AP) [this includes one instance of Illumination popped by R and one instance popped by a basic attack]
  • Syndra – 570 (+230% AP) [this is with zero additional Dark Spheres on Unleashed Power]

Again, the comparisons are super basic so they’re just a loose reference. the numbers don’t mean anything on their own, but might help out people who aren’t familiar with damage levels get a sense of what to expect when they first play against her. sometimes it’s easy to lose track of numbers given there are so many being thrown around.



[Quintessence] Isn’t it highly unlikely for Fox-fire to hit the same target more than twice?


ricklessabandon Button Rioter ricklessabandon: If that’s true, that just makes the new Ahri better by comparison since the newer damage reduction values would be less of a factor. For example, if players generally only ever hit one Fox-fire against their intended target, the Ahri changes would leave Fox-fire at 100% of the damage without Charm, and 120% of the damage with Charm (a straight buff).



[Avalon Bright] But the overall damage would still be less, because it’s a decrease


ricklessabandon Button Rioter ricklessabandon: If you hit with two Fox-fires, you’re doing ~86% of the old damage without Charm, and 104% of the old damage with Charm. Basically, multi-hit damage without Charm was very intentionally nerfed, and multi-hit damage with Charm is around the same amount of damage (+/- depending on one extra hit or two).



[konfetarius] Won’t these changes make Ahri much weaker when fighting bruisers?


ricklessabandon Button Rioter ricklessabandon: Thanks for this – I’ll chat with manwolfaxeboss about these changes in detail. Insight into how she plays on Summoner’s Rift and/or Twisted Treeline is super valuable, so please feel free to post more if you get a chance to play her on the PBE.



[Kandyvag] Will Charm amplify damage from items such as DFG?


ricklessabandon Button Rioter ricklessabandon: Ahri’s Charm amplifies all of her magic damage, so items like DFG, Lich Bane, Liandry’s torment, etc all deal 20% more damage. In regards to Doom (DFG’s debuff): Charm does stack with Doom, so Ahri’s magic damage will be increased by 44% against that unfortunate target afflicted by both.



How does the new healing value compare to the old one?


ricklessabandon Button Rioter ricklessabandon: Old values on a wave of 6 minions (assuming you hit each twice) would be something closer to:
~55 + ~46% ap @ rank 1 (level 1)
~194 + ~46% ap @ rank 5 (level 9)

New values would be:
36 + 108% ap @ rank 1 (level 1)
132 + 108% ap @ rank 5 (level 9)

Going off of that, the break-even point for Orb of deception at level 9 is 100 ability power—anything past that and the new passive is healing for more.



 Was Ahri nerfed because of DFG?


ricklessabandon Button Rioter ricklessabandon: To be honest, I really don’t mind Ahri using DFG. I’ve been a fan of her assassin playstyle for a while (it was fairly common in OGN back when Jayce and Twisted Fate were perma-banned so i’ve seen it a lot), and i’m fine with the trade-offs she makes by rushing the item. I’m not saying that the item itself is perfect and/or immune to scrutiny, but I am saying that there isn’t some sort of magic combination of Ahri + DFG that needs to be broken up. the changes i’ve planned out for her are meant to work well both with and without Deathfire Grasp in her inventory.



Isn’t this forcing an assassin-playstyle from Ahri players?


ricklessabandon Button Rioter ricklessabandon: There are some specifics in the replies below, but forcing/favoring assassin Ahri isn’t in line with the goals I’ve laid out and I currently don’t think that the assassin play patterns are actually favored over her other styles (again, pending a couple of changes I mention below). as I’ve mentioned in previous posts in this thread, I’m interested in hearing out any concerns about specific playstyles that may be crippled by my changes.



Are you nerfing her passive?


ricklessabandon Button Rioter ricklessabandon: There’s a bit of math behind this of course, but the changes to the passive with the current numbers are currently an overall buff with a focus on the late game. Two major factors here are the the new passive isn’t affected by the opponent’s magic resist (which matters more later in the game) and that the heal’s base amount comes from champion levels instead of ability rank.



[iYumSoup] Why was Fox-fire changed to an AoE spell?


ricklessabandon Button Rioter ricklessabandon: So, part of the reasoning for this change was that the initial impetus to tag the spell as single-target was for the interaction with her passive. since the passive was reworked, the need for the change went away and we were left with a spell that just broke the rules for no reason. After reading several posts responding to the change though, I feel like a better course of action is to fully support this interaction and call it out in the tooltip (i.e., allow it to be more effective with rylai’s crystal scepter) and keep it as a standard consideration for Ahri’s balance state.



[PeachsProperty] Are we forced to hit Charm to do damage?


ricklessabandon Button Rioter ricklessabandon: That depends on your play patterns. If your damage pattern was something like hit a few times with orb of deception to get your targets low before diving in for the kill, then these changes will have less of an effect on you since Orb of deception’s damage wasn’t changed. If your pattern was more about roaming and picking off lone enemies as an opportunist, then you’ll likely need to land Charm (and your opponent should have this in mind and be trying to play around it).



[Vemon] Will Charm not increase bonus true damage?


ricklessabandon Button Rioter ricklessabandon: That’s currently correct, though to be honest i’d prefer if it could amp true damage portion of Orb of deception as well. When i first thought about it, allowing this interaction would mean either allowing it to affect things like Ignite, or making a weird special case that we’d have to call out in the tooltip. Initially I was’t too thrilled about either to be honest, but reading some of the responses I’m convinced i should at least get the latter to the PBE for feedback.



[Lichblade] Why is Ahri getting nerfed when there are other top-tier assassins to fix, too?


ricklessabandon Button Rioter ricklessabandon: Quick reply to this since i’ve seen it pop up a lot in this thread: the team felt it was best to look at the ‘top-tier assassins’ as a set, and as such will have changes for Ahri, Fizz, Kassadin, and Zed in the 3.13 patch (assuming plans don’t change). I specifically went out of the way to make sure Ahri’s changes would be among the first to go on the PBE since I really wanted as much time as possible for tuning and gathering feedback given my desire to start with aggressive changes and work back from there. Anyway, that’s why everyone has seen Ahri’s changes in isolation and why i’ve been eager to hear from everyone. :3

Also, while I sincerely appreciate the posts everyone has taken the time to write (whether passionate or stoic), I would like to kindly ask that everyone respect each other and refrain from hostilities—it really makes everything a lot easier if the atmosphere is one of collaboration and civil discussion.



Off-topic: Any changes to Kassadin to look forward to in Patch 3.13?


ricklessabandon Button Rioter ricklessabandon: Sure thing. I handed off the Kass changes to another member of the team — Ahri demanded quite a bit of time and i wouldn’t have had enough time to properly work on Kass as well as both Ahri and Morgana. Current plan is still ‘Kassadin changes in 3.13’ (last I checked) so unless that changes you guys should get more info on that really soon.



[NEGITIVITY] So Ahri’s overall power is in a good spot, but she brings little room for counter-play because of guaranteed damage?


ricklessabandon Button Rioter ricklessabandon: i mostly agree with your sentiments here. the part i would change is that i believe it’s not the ‘overall’ power that’s in a good place exactly, but more her highs and her lows. as an ahri player, one generally feels like the actions they take have appropriate rewards/penalties. in fact, her kit feels so fair (generally speaking) that an item like deathfire grasp seems almost criminal by comparison (and again, i don’t think it’s problematic with ahri). echoing your mention of the kit being ‘overbearing,’ one of the issues ahri’s playstyle has is that her highs are available very frequently. my changes aim to address that, with a few other goals in mind as mentioned in the first post.



Will this just kill Ahri’s viability?


ricklessabandon Button Rioter ricklessabandon: This is not meant to be a kill order on Ahri. The goal isn’t to make her play rate to drop—it’s awesome seeing her in games and personally speaking I would be super sad if her play rate suffered. Point being that I totally understand where everyone is coming from when they post in this thread.


QA on Heimerdinger’s Rework


heimerdinger banner

 Heimerdinger has been reworked! What can the man in charge of this update tell us about his new kit?



Are there any plans to rework his passive?


20thCenturyFauxButton Rioter 20thCenturyFaux: The passive is a bit trickier. I tried some spicy passive ideas, but it always meant compromising on the complexity/power of the other spells–people only have so much attention they can pay, and if the passive is taxing mindshare that could be going to turrets, I get a lot less comfortable.

There’s always more work that can be done, and if an awesome + simple + low power passive idea comes out of PBE I’ll jump on it instantly ^^



[DaethFang] Will Heimer get a VU to go with his new kit?


20thCenturyFauxButton Rioter 20thCenturyFaux: Model is unchanged, he has a huge amount of new particles that I made. I hope you guys like them! Also, particle feedback is very much welcome, because I made them I have free reign to fiddle with them.



Audio alerts


20thCenturyFauxButton Rioter 20thCenturyFaux: There’s a couple things in particular I’d like folks to watch out for: I just added a hit-confirm sound that plays for Heimerdinger only, even if he’s off screen, to let him know when his turrets are shooting a champion. It should help him use them as wards and let him know how his turrets are doing in a cluttered teamfight, but I have some fear it might be annoying. I borrowed a sound from Katarina for the prototype—if it proves to be awesome, I’ll get a Heimerdinger sound for it, otherwise I’ll just kill it.

The other thing is a squirrely bug with RQ where the turret shoots an ice ball instead of its cool projectile and bugs out when its duration expires. Quite nasty, actually—it creates a zombie turret that does no damage but slows people, is invincible, and lasts forever. I really hope this is fixed, but if you see it, please let me know!



[ParaBellam] Any changes to his base stats?


20thCenturyFauxButton Rioter 20thCenturyFaux: I fiddled some with his base stats, but mainly to make his autoattack feel more like a wrench. There are some other minor changes, but nothing as drastic as tankiness / speed.




[emTmyclipin2u] Did you remove Heimer’s ability to heal Towers?


20thCenturyFauxButton Rioter 20thCenturyFaux: I actually used to do this on live. In my personal experience, it was really awesome to leave a turret at full, but the whole time you spent sitting under it to actually do it was some of the least fun ever. What’s more the power of healing a turret is pretty marginal–you spend 2 minutes patching it up, then an ADC takes all the hp away with one auto.

Xypherous removed it for much the same reasons, and I 100% think that was the right call, haha. Healing towers sounds so good on paper but actually doing it sucks pretty bad imo.



[sleepisdeath] How did you decide to rework Heimerdinger?


Button Rioter 20thCenturyFaux: The fear, you have no idea the fear. Reworks have had a rough ride for a while now, I was so scared I was putting my face into a pile of spiders by taking on the Dinger rework, but it had to be done. He was one of the first champs I bought, and I got my UFO Corki the old-fashioned way. He has such potential and it sat there for so long. Just because Karma went bad doesn’t mean Dinger will, and at the end of the day, I get to work for Riot–what business do I have being afraid of torches and pitchforks? Who am I to let a champion suffer because I’m afraid the forums will rip me apart? It was time, the dinger had to be raised, and that was that.



[exec3] Does magic penetration work apply to turrets?


20thCenturyFauxButton Rioter 20thCenturyFaux: Magic pen works on turrets, and Rylai’s / Liandri’s / Spellvamp works on turret beams but not turret autoattacks.




[Fomorian27] Are the lasers modifiable by CDR?


20thCenturyFauxButton Rioter 20thCenturyFaux: The beam cooldown is indeed modified by CDR. They fire on their own or when Heimerdinger attacks someone / hits them with a grenade, but will attempt to save their beam for champions or if they feel threatened by a creep wave. Whether the beams fire in sync is mainly about when they get triggered.



[kavi] Can Syndra still throw Heimer’s turrets?


20thCenturyFauxButton Rioter 20thCenturyFaux: I had to mark so many “Syndra can throw heimer turrets” bugs as “working as intended”, you have no idea hahahaha

If we find out it really sucks I can do something about it, but where I stand now it seems to me that Syndra tossing turrets is awesomer than hell  . It only really hurts Heimer if he doesn’t have other options, but I think we’ve done a good job of making sure he has tons and tons of options with this rework.


20thCenturyFauxButton Rioter 20thCenturyFaux: I actually scripted this but then reverted it. I can put it back in with the flip of a switch if it turns out to suck too much for Heimer :3





[ParaBellam] Is the turret AI better?


20thCenturyFauxButton Rioter 20thCenturyFaux: The turret AI is much more sophisticated. If there’s interest I’ll do a bigger post on it later, but for now I haven’t got time xD

[Paradoof] Will his turret get more resistances/health than before?

20thCenturyFauxButton Rioter 20thCenturyFaux: Yes.



[Paradoof] Are his rank up effects like AoE damage and Magic Resist shred still there?

20thCenturyFauxButton Rioter 20thCenturyFaux: No.



[Paradoof] Do turrets still have increased attack speed for a few seconds after placing them?

20thCenturyFauxButton Rioter 20thCenturyFaux: No.



[Arc insanity] Does the turrets’ spellvamp heal Heimer or them?

20thCenturyFauxButton Rioter 20thCenturyFaux: The spellvamp heals Heimerdinger, and turret resistances scale with Heimerdinger’s level.



[Arc insanity] How are the new turrets in terms of tankiness?

20thCenturyFauxButton Rioter 20thCenturyFaux: Turret resistances scale with Heimerdinger’s level.



[Clouds Chocobo] What are the new additions to the turrets?

20thCenturyFauxButton Rioter 20thCenturyFaux: Oh man you have no idea. They have so much crazy particle stuff I don’t even know.

Basically they have a Thresh lantern type timer that shows when they will decay, a Heimerdinger-only range indicator so you can see their autoattack circles and make cool patterns with them etc, an ammo indicator on Heimer, a particle that shows the ammo being spent when they’re placed, a targeting laser that fires before the beam does, and a sound that plays for Heimer even if you’re not near them if they’re fighting a champ (so you can use them as wards, keep track of them in teamfights, etc).

Incidentally, just want to reiterate that I added the sound thing late yesterday so it might suck. Feedback pls!

20thCenturyFauxButton Rioter 20thCenturyFaux: I forgot to mention that turrets display their beam charge as their resource bar, it builds till full based on your CDR and can fire when max :3



Do the rockets damage in an AoE or just the first enemy hit?


20thCenturyFauxButton Rioter 20thCenturyFaux: Yep, the rockets are first enemy hit.





[emTmyclipin2u] Why is the mana cost so high?


20thCenturyFauxButton Rioter 20thCenturyFaux: W does have an unusually large mana cost. I went with that because it still has pretty huge range, and Q only costs 20 mana–the large cost on W serves to both keep Heimer sane in lane and to make sure he still values mana later on.


[IS11d6327cb35cafc124891] This new version of Heimer’s Rockets seems underwhelming

20thCenturyFauxButton Rioter 20thCenturyFaux: Hehehe, it’s easy to underestimate it, but the slow is nothin’ to sneeze at–and more importantly, when you catch someone inside the turret nest but don’t hit the stun, they still get CC’d in a way that makes the turrets punish them more. On top of that, the slow/stun paradigm lets Heimerdinger follow up with skillshot rockets in a way blind doesn’t. All the power on E is loaded into its core function, so it lacks the extra features the other spells have.

That said, this is PBE! We’ll find out what works or not by people playing, and we can change stuff accordingly ^^



[exec3] Why wasn’t the original idea for Heimerdinger’s R+Q implemented (instantly places all turrets up to cap)


20thCenturyFauxButton Rioter 20thCenturyFaux: I quite liked the idea of Xypherous’s RQ, but it meant Heimerdinger had no ultimate turret to use in cases where he already did have his three turrets out. The big turret doesn’t count against the turret limit, but it’s still rowdy enough to work in the “caught outside the nest” case, so it’s my hope that it’s the same thing but better ^^



[Paradoof] Does the bigger turret from his ult disappear after its duration is over?


20thCenturyFauxButton Rioter 20thCenturyFaux: It disappears, but does not count toward the 3 turret max while it’s around.




[Paradoof] Can you get 3 beams out of a single enchanted turret with enough CDR?


20thCenturyFauxButton Rioter 20thCenturyFaux: Turrets start with something like 70% beam charge, so at the moment it’s two beams max, but only time and playtesting will tell!




[sleepisdeath] How does Ult + E work?


20thCenturyFauxButton Rioter 20thCenturyFaux: If H is Heimerdinger and O is grenade detonation, it’s like

H —–> O->O->O

and it damages and slows or stuns the things it hits. You can be CC’d more than once by it, but you only take damage once since damage is the other spells’ job.


[Mormondekaiser] Why was the passive bonus CDR removed?

20thCenturyFauxButton Rioter 20thCenturyFaux: Cooldown was an interesting point. I frequently found myself considering putting it back on to make his amount of turrets out more consistent, but at the end of the day, the same reasoning as the passive prevailed: I can’t justify putting power into something that’s invisible because I want all the power on the cool Heimer-specific things. Everyone gets CDR, but only Heimer gets turrets.



[Quintessence] Why did you take the Karma route with Heimer’s ult?

20thCenturyFauxButton Rioter 20thCenturyFaux: It’s actually quite a bit different from Karma. Heimer’s cooldown is much higher and he doesn’t get it until 6, which lets me make it far, far more powerful. Karma essentially can weave a big version of a normal spell in with her combo, whereas Heimerdinger can choose one of three ultimate spells at a normal ult cooldown.

[Zerglinator] So this new ultimate is like Katarina’s old W?

20thCenturyFauxButton Rioter 20thCenturyFaux: Yea, I could see that. Three choices instead of two, and huge UPGRADE!!!s instead of little boosts . I never noticed the similarity, hehe.

For example, the RQ turret just rips people apart if they stay by it, and RW can 70-0 someone if they stay put for the whole thing.


[de Dust] Does he still walk with the swagger?

20thCenturyFauxButton Rioter 20thCenturyFaux: VERY YES. It is a sin against Heimerdinger to even contemplate adjusting his swagger.



Lookin’ sharp, Rammus – New Textures

Rammus banner

Relaunch Team Secret Texture Upgrade Ninja Initiative #1: Successful!



Why wasn’t this update announced earlier?


IronStylusButton Rioter IronStylus: The texture updates are really a result of our dedicated 3D artists taking some time to give champions who don’t need an overhaul some love. You’ll most likely see more of these sneaking in here and there. We don’t want to make too much of a big deal because they’re more like us doing polish work and cleaning house rather than doing something that needs big fanfare like a complete VU.



[exec3] Does this mean Rammus won’t need a VU in the future?


IronStylusButton Rioter IronStylus: Good question. Honestly, I was surprised how fairly solid our little Armordillo is. In this case, a little polish went a long way. I personally see these adjustments as what’s needed for Rammus as he stands. There’s no giant theme shift he needs, there’s no changing gameplay that needs to be visually represented, he just needs cleanup. Maybe in the future, if some compelling situation arises, we might shift him, warranting a full VU. I don’t really foresee that happening though, at least not any time soon. For now he’s ok.



[Carmilia] Are there other Champions who need minor adjustements via texture work?


IronStylusButton Rioter IronStylus: There’s a whole list of champions which sort of constitute a lower tier in terms of priority and work needed for VU. This equates to “TU’s”, or Texture Updates. Those are champions whose models, rigs, animations, and other framework are in pretty decent shape, and all they need is some geometry tweaking on the model and texture polish for quality and readability’s sake. Yes, Miss Fortune would be one of those. Some others might be Lux, Vayne, and a few other recent-ish champions built on solid foundations. Such TU’s would be easier to do, low-risk and be able to be peppered into our larger scale effort to overhaul champions that have a heavier work load attached to them.



[Splinterheart] How long does it take to develop a Texture Rework?


IronStylusButton Rioter IronStylus: Depends. The Rammus one, since it wasn’t a full blown operation, more of a labor of love for some of our artists for a while, took longer than it would have to just focus the entire Relaunch team onto such a TU. That said, we only have a certain number of texture artists. They’re going to have stuff to do across the board on a number of different assets at any given time. Work like this seems to be be best served when it’s not the absolute priority, and as I said, mixed into the various levels of work we do on any particular champion.

We have a TU list also. As per usual, if you look though characters that have fairly solid rigs and animations, you can guess which ones will most likely be in line for a TU rather than a full blown VU or relaunch.



[GenuineGuilt] Off-topic: Any news on Kassadin?


IronStylusButton Rioter IronStylus: Kassadin is high on the priority list for a full VU.




Zyra’s rework in the making


Zyra Banner

Following Morello‘s recent statement that we should expect a possible tweaking of Zyra, CertainlyT posted a theoretical rework for her.



CertainlyTButton Rioter CertainlyT: Hey everybody — Here is some additional context on the proposed changes. I’ll just bullet point it:

• Q and E both spawn seeds placed at the moment of detonation more reliably. This is especially in the presence of latency — something our pros play without but you play with. Ever notice that you combo and are left with a seed on the ground after? That is largely resolved.

• E spawns Vine Lashers in a wider band around it, allowing you to create more effective zoning walls with good mouse movement or pre-placement of seeds.

• R hastens plants grown after it has been placed, allowing you to ult at a position in an emergency and then turn the fight around and unload on your opponent(s) if they fail to escape.

• Deadly Bloom at 800 range and Rampant Growth at 850 allows you to place seeds in the outer portion of the ring created by max range Deadly Blooms. Combined with the reliability changes above, you can now more effectively cast Q or E, wait a moment to see which way the enemy moves, and create a plant at the edge of the spell closest to them. These optimizations are really satisfying and embody the gameplay I intended on release. Overall, her playmaking potential has gone up to compensate for her raw numerical power going down.

• It’s not on PBE yet, but I plan on improving the self-only indicators of who your plant is targeting (the triangle with downward arrow above enemies’ heads) facilitating finer plant micro-management using your basic attack.

• 10% CDR is worth 322 gold. If you maxed W last, the CDR nerf is roughly the gold equivalent of losing 3 AP at level 2, 6 AP at level 14, and 0.75 of an Amp Tome at level 18. Common mid builds overcapped CDR by a hefty margin making the effective cost even less. The change was long overdue given season 3’s improved access to cooldown reduction.

• Reduced plant base damage at early levels is focused on Zyra’s power as a duo laner. She levels much more slowly and leans more heavily on base damage from the support position.

• The duration of Stranglethorns’ stun on live was never intended to be this length. She still retains a gigantic amount of CC, even for a control mage. Even after these changes, she still brings 3 seconds of AOE immobilization/stun to set up further crowd control, such as Vine Lashers.

• The small reduction in Q base damage is mostly targeted at competitive support Zyra – they take Q first and harass their opponents out of lane, since it is nearly unavoidable if you cast it when the enemy AD begins a last hit. It’s also the change in which I have the least confidence, so keep tabs on this one.

• I am not interested in “compensation,” only in giving all Zyra players more opportunities to distinguish themselves, because I think Zyra is also too strong as a mid laner. That she is still highly successful in that slot in an assassin-filled meta-game (her natural counter) speaks for itself. The fact that LCS teams generally choose to run her bot lane doesn’t make her mid lane case immune from balance considerations. If you enjoy Zyra enough to take advantage of the gains this patch provides, you’ll still find great success in mid..

Discuss away!



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