Red Post Collection
Xypherous and Feral Pony are answering questions regarding the most recent PBE changes to items.
Â Note: Click here if you want to be taken straight to the Q&A section.
BFS / Attack Damage Items
Â Â Â B.F. Sword
- Attack Damage increased from 45 to 50
Â Infinity Edge
- Attack Damage increased from 70 to 80
Â Mercurial Scimitar
- Total Cost: 3700 –> 3800
- Attack Damage: 60 –> 80
- Active: Now also gives the Movement Speed to ranged characters.
Notes: We’ve generally liked the fact that AP items have three distinct tiers of AP, 60 / 80 and 120 for major Ability Power items. We’re taking some steps to get Attack Damage into similar tiers for the major Attack Damage items with 80 as our high-end point.
Â Youmu’s Ghostblade
- Active: Now lasts 6 seconds on ranged characters.
Notes: We’ve tried to remove ranged/melee splits on most of the locations on which they didn’t seem to make sense anymore in the modern game.
…Yeah, we’ll probably have to nerf Heal. Stop looking at me like that.
- Total Cost increased from 400 gold to 450
- Attack Speed increased from 12% to 15%
- Total CostÂ decreased fromÂ 1175 goldÂ 1100
- Attack Speed increased from 18% to 20%
Notes: Attack Speed is a hard stat to commit to – mostly because it’s very trivial to overcommit to the stat – as by the end-game, you have a healthy amount of Attack Speed. What we’re doing here is making the build up to a complete Attack Speed grant more Attack Speed along the way and be smoother on the way there.
Â Berzerker Greaves
- Total Cost increasedÂ from 950 gold toÂ 1000
- Attack Speed increased from 20% to 25%
Notes: This is more tier 2 boot consolidation into the 1000 gold range – while keeping the deviations from the 1000 gold range intentional and part of that specific boots’ strength or weakness.
Â Doran’s Blade
- Health decreased from 80 to 70
- Attack Damage decreased from 8 to 7
- Life on-hit removed, now grants 3% Life Steal instead
Explanation: Yes, this is essentially a directional revert to S2 days of Doran’s Blade. Basically, we tried to phase out Life Steal as an early game statistic in the transition from S2 to S3 – as Life Steal should feel compelling or expensive.
However, in that environment, sustain or defensive supports were at an all time high. A carry character didn’t need much in the way of life steal early because there was a reliable source of sustain in their lane (the support.)
With the addition of offensive supports and the continuing rise of non-sustain supports, the limited amount of life steal options essentially forced all carries down a single path – Vampiric Scepter – as the sustain factor required in lane wasn’t being provided from either the support or their Doran’s Blade.
With only a single large source of life steal – carry players only had two options for life steal – Either stay at 4.5% from quints or dramatically overshoot and get 14.5% from Vampiric Scepter – which kind of makes sustain supports redundant to begin with.
I’m retuning life steal as a more expensive stat that is highly accessible in many different sources rather than it being more concentrated power because the reality of the situation is that there isn’t a single life steal value that is correct if you cannot rely on a surplus of sustain from your support pick.
Hence, AD carry players need a wider array of smaller more flexible options that can build up to their ideal amount of life steal – based on the needs of the lane, their opponents and who their support is. In a high sustain lane, you might be able to get away with a Doran’s Blade into an infinity edge, for example – whereas in a low sustain lane, you might need a couple of blades and a vampiric scepter – but the lack of offense on your side is compensated by the fact that you hav an offensive support.
TL;DRÂ – A wider amount of smaller life steal options will make ADC builds more flexible because they’ll be able to tailor the right amount of life steal for the situation – rather than be railroaded down one path if they need any amount of sustain.
Â Vampiric Scepter
- Life Steal decreased from 10% to 8%
Â Bilgewater Cutlass
- Life Steal decreased from 12% to 8%
Â Blade of the Ruined King
- Life Steal decreased from 15% to 10%
- Proc Damage: 5% Current Health –> 8% Current Health
- Active Nuke Damage: 15% Maximum Health –> 10% Maximum Health
- Active Movement Speed Slow: 30% Movement Speed Steal –> 25% Movement Speed Steal
Notes:Â Shifting this item to be a little more about the proc damage and less about the active nuke – which will shift it a bit more towards the sustained damage space rather than the burst space. This item looks nerfed – but only because so many things are changing around it – which you’ll see in the followup posts – mostly Dagger becoming a better value in the build up to the item as well as Warden’s Mail and Randuin’s Omen which heavily impact this item more than any of the other items listed here.
- Combine cost increased from 850Â to 1100 (Total cost from 3250 to 3500)
- Attack Damage increased from 70 to 80
- Life StealÂ increased from 12% to 15%
- Removed:Â Attack Damage / Life Steal – Stacking Passive
New Passive:Â “Your life steal can now overheal you, granting a shield that can block from 50 to 410 damage, based on champion level. This shield decays rapidly if you have not taken or dealt damage in the last 15 seconds.”
Note:Â Passive is heavily non-linear scaling. At level 6, the shield is around 100. At level 16, the shield is around 330 – to give you an idea of how far up it scales.
Notes:Â Bloodthirster is kind of the ultimate snowball item design. If you rush it first, you get sustain and an AD advantage – that then keeps growing as you stay in lane for longer.
However – it was kept down by the fact that it was relative poor scaling compared to other options – an I.E. for example would dramatically outclass its damage mid game when combined with a multiplier item.
However, with the rise of ratio driven carries being the default rather than the exception – coupled with the sustain issues that made Vampiric Scepter the default rather than the exception – Bloodthirster proves to be a fairly unhealthy item in its current stacking iteration.
We’ve retuned Bloodthirster to be a heavy life steal / defensive option.
Notes:Â In the short term, we are aware that this leaves stacking Attack Damage builds in a bit of a pinch as there won’t be an option for something like triple Bloodthirster heavy stack – it’ll be something we’ll be trying to figure out how to better support without running straight into Caster / Ratio driven carries dominating lane and suppressing traditional Attack Speed carries and then falling completely off the map – causing the entire carry role to feel somewhat anemic.
(NEW)Â Essence Reaver
- RECIPE: Vampiric Scepter + Pickaxe + 950 Gold = 2650 Total Gold Cost
- Attack Damage: 50
- Life Steal: 10%
- Cooldown Reduction: 10%
- UNIQUE Passive: You gain 2 to 8% of the damage dealt by basic attacks as Mana. Mana drain increases based on how much Mana you are missing.
Notes:Â While iterating with life steal slots – we realized that caster based carries are split into two camps: One that needs mana – and one that wants ratios. While we were iterating, we stumbled across this item that seemed to allow for a really intensive mana spam/attack combat pattern that seemed fun especially on Ezreal (Q) /Graves (Q) / Corki / Draven (W) / Sivir (W).
Â Mikael’s Crucible
- New Recipe: Chalice of Harmony + Forbidden Idol + 870 G = 2450 Gold Total
- Mana Regeneration per 5 seconds increased from 10 to 20
- Now gives 10% Cooldown Reduction
Notes:Â Mikael’s Crucible is dominant in competitive play and shuts down the value of our utility focused carries (Varus/Ashe) while being fairly ineffective against the more spammy pick patterns of everyone else (Elise ‘E’ for example). While we like what Crucible brings to the table – we’d like to shift it towards our more mana hungry supports (who tend to be more defensive) rather than being a generically good pickup for everyone.
(NEW)Â Ardent Censer
- Recipe: Forbidden Idol + Aether Wisp + 250 G = 1900 Total Cost
- 30 Ability Power
- 10 Mana Regeneration per 5 seconds
- 10% Cooldown Reduction
- 8% Movement Speed
- Unique Passive: Whenever youÂ healÂ orÂ shieldÂ anotherÂ champion, they gain 25% Attack Speed for 6 seconds.
Notes:Â We wanted to create a mid-tier support item for supports now that Mikael’s sits at a higher price point. We also want to see how you guys respond to this particular trigger effect as it has interesting interactions across supports. Thresh, for example, has an AoE AS boost from this item – while Janna and Lulu both offer attack steroids that synergize well with the Attack Speed.
And it’s probably overkill on Nidalee.
Note this is your heals and shields onÂ otherÂ champions – so self-healing is right out. When we tested it, there was a lot of weird rules cases and edge cases that seemed to make very little sense – how would you expect Malphite’s passive to interact with this, for example?
Â Athene’s Unholy Grail
- Magic Resist decreased from 40 to 25
- Mana Regeneration per 5 secondsÂ decreased from 15 toÂ 10
- Mana Restoration on kill or assist increased from 12% to 15%
Notes:Â Now that we have two Chalice of Harmony upgrades in a very similar price range, we wanted to do a pass on Athene’s Unholy Grail (currently a very cost-efficient purchase) to make sure this item wasn’t crowding out other items in the ‘Mp5 + CDR’ family. With Mikael’s Crucible decisively taking the ‘the defensive path’ from Chalice, we choose to preserve Athene’s offensive power. This meant reducing the item’s Magic Resist and taking this as an opportunity to increase strength of the kill/assist passive. Those changes combined with a small adjustment to Morellonomicon should shore up the stat lines of these items.
- Ability Power increased from 75 to 80
- Mana Regeneration per 5 seconds decreased from 12 to 10
Notes:Â Small stat adjustment as mentioned above. Though minor, this should help make Morellonomicon feel a bit better in terms of item slot efficiency as the game goes on.
Â Forbidden Idol
- Cost decreased from 750 Gold to 700
Notes:Â Small cost adjustment. All items that use Forbidden Idol as a component will have the same overall cost (e.g., Morellonomicon will still cost 2200 Gold).
Â Locket of the Iron Solari
- Unique Active will now use a recipient’s level to calculate shield strength if the recipient’s level is higher than the item owner’s level.
Notes:Â This change should give a small boost to defensive support players that like to purchase Locket of the Iron Solari for their team.
- Attack Speed Slow decreased from 15% to 10%
Â Randuin’s Omen
- Attack Speed Slow decreased from 15% to 10%
- Movement Speed Slow (On Being Hit) removed (currently 10%)
Notes:Â This change will have heavy ramifications in the fighter space as Randuin’s Omen effectively gave non gap-closing fighters a way into fights. However, this came at a significant expense to ADC kite patterns and general ADC power.
This also made carries with innate gap closing powers much more powerful in comparison to ADCs that didn’t have gap closers as those abilities were unaffected by the slow of Omen.
We’re aware that with the recent Heal changes, this move will probably tip the scales much in favor of the kite based ADC patterns – but we want to evaluate on live for a while before deciding just how much to scale back ADC kiting or scale up defensive itemization.
As usual, these numbers are aren’t final and hence the forecast + these specific PBE notes. To the best of my knowledge, you’ll be able to play with these tomorrow – (Although there will be still some temp assets in that build.)
ricklessabandon / FeralPony and I will be around in the next couple of hours to field any initial set of questions – and I think rickless has some other support item changes (numerical tweaks) that he’ll be updating this post with.
Â ricklessabandon:Â i just updated the post to reflect some upcoming changes to athene’s, locket, idol, and morellonomicon. i’ll be around for a bit making sure everything gets in correctly for the next pbe update, so feel free to ask if you have questions~
[ Question ] What do you mean that Mikael’s is too commonplace?
Â Xypherous:Â Specifically, that note is about competitive play – Mikael’s is pretty much in every game – which means that Ashe or Varus ultimates get far less useful.
[ Question ] Why are you making the final upgrade components less satisfying in terms of power increase?
Â Â ricklessabandon: it’s not really a shift in direction or anythingâ€”we look at items on a case-by-case basis when it comes to what you get for paying the combine cost for items. in the case of athene’s, we wanted to keep the ‘aggro’ flavor of the item so your 900g will still double the ability power and cdr you had from codex as well as give you a new mana regeneration passive based on killing champions. the item was never really supposed to read as an ‘anti-mage’ item, so a significant magic resist increase (while very, very useful) just makes athene’s adoption a bit ubiquitous. it somewhat naturally follows that if athene’s is crowding out other mp5+cdr items we should chip away at the stats that aren’t core to the item’s original identity.
all that said, there will likely always be a mix of item combine costs that are purely functional (i.e., it just frees up an item slot) and some that are significant power spikes (i.e., zhonya’s, youmuu’s, etc).
[ Question ]Â Isn’t swinging itemization towards Infinity Edge going to introduce crit strike randomness in trades?
Â Xypherous:Â A couple of notes on this:
Rushing I.E. with zero sustain means you’re running a heavy sustain support or basically dying.
I.E. with DBlade support is more expensive than rushing BT and we should work towards tuning it such that the lane is either decided by that point or winding down.
The current world isn’t much better in terms of critical strike: Critical strike does pop up in the most common laner currently with the prevalence of Tri-Force –> BT or BT –> Zeal.
Instead of a critical damage multiplier, it’s backed up by 15% lifesteal instead – which produces equivalent swings in total life.
[ Follow-up ] But Life Steal isn’t random, while Crit chance is
Â Xypherous:Â You missed my point here – BT builds typically have a Zeal in them, either directly before in the case of TF –> BT builds or directly after in the case of BT –> PD Builds.
Which means the RNG portion of it – assuming similar gold – was already in lane. It then becomes whether you think 15% LS or 50% Crit Damage is more swingy – and for me it works out roughly the same.
[ Question ] Will the Doran’s Blade Life Steal bonus be unique?
Â Xypherous:Â Nope. The intent here is that you can build 1 to 3 DBlades depending on your need and it won’t immediately become irrelevant unlike the current one.
[ SuggestionÂ ] WhyÂ can’t Ardent Censer give Attack Speed to the user, when theÂ mechanic’s already been doneÂ on Sivir and Warwick?
Â Xypherous:Â It’s mitigated slightly by the fact that it’s an item that has a gold cost – rather than an intrinsic facet of a character that we have to balance around.
On champions, Sivir and WW’s power are essentiallyÂ freeÂ but then you’re forced to optimize around it. However, with this item, we can reasonably assume that Ardent Censer will be bought by characters seeking to abuse that power directly and thus can better control the cost.
[ Question ] Won’t short-CD shields make the new support item easy to abuse?
Â Xypherous:Â We’ll see. It’s fairly trivial to add AoE or single target restrictions onto the item – but it’s premature to add restraints onto the item before people have gotten a chance to use it.
If AoE shields are reallyÂ thatÂ spammy we can adjust easily.
The key difference currently is that the single target shields have 100% uptime at max CDR while the AoE ones typically don’t or sacrifice some other utility if used at the wrong moment.
[ Question ] Does Lulu’s ult or Soraka’s mana return proc Ardent Censer?
Â Xypherous:Â Lulu’s ult does not count as a heal – nor does Soraka’s mana heal.
The trigger is very specific in what events it’s looking for. I suppose I could special case some of them but I’d rather not at the outset.
[ Question ] Why isn’t Wit’s End being buffed in terms of Attack Speed?
Â Xypherous:Â We actually wanted to do this – but couldn’t actually get this feeling right for this patch or any of the upcoming ones.
I know FeralPony is still trying to figure this particular problem out though. He essentially wants to nuke Recurve Bow and figure out alternate recipes for anything that built out of it.
(For example, for a while we were testing a 20% AS item that had 10 magic damage on it. It would build into Nashor’s, BoRK, Wit’s End and Hurricane. Little weird that the magic damage became physical in certain cases – but we could never get it to feel quite right.)
[ Question ] If you want to make Blade of the Ruined King kill tanks, why not changeÂ it to deal a % of maximum health, instead of current?
Â Xypherous:Â % Max isn’t a tank buster item. % Max Health damage is a bruiser item at its core – the reason for this being that an item with % Max Health damage is far better on you when you have low damage of your own.
Since the % Max Health would be lower – you’d actually want to target low armor targets to get the most value out of it – again, better against squishies.
To throw a thought experiment – who would benefit more from the following item?
50% Current HP on hit
25% Max Hp on it.
The ADC would most likely kill you in 3 hits with either item as he’s dealing 300 + 50% of your current health or 300 + 25% of your max health. In any event, against a 2000 health target, you’re dying in 3 hits.
However, let’s look at the bruiser who does relatively low damage per hit. 100 + 50% of your maximum health would take 5 hits to kill you – however, regardless of his damage, he would kill you in 4 hits with the Max HP version.
Obviously the numbers are extreme here and tilted to favor my point but % Current Health damage favors characters with intrinsically high damage per attack – whereas % Max Health is agnostic and thus favors characters regardless of their base damage (which end up being bruiser focused.)
[ Follow-up ]
Â Xypherous:Â Bruisers typically attack things that are lower resistance, while ADCs ignore more resistances on the targets they attack.
I’ve just generally found that whenever we put % Max HP damage on anything, squishies tend to die all over the place.
[ Question ]Â What about % bonus health scaling?
Â Xypherous:Â Bonus Health scaling suffers from the same problem as Bonus Armor Scaling.
If you make the number feel satisfying (since there’s a lower pool to work with) – if the item is in any way decent, you absolutely murder the (perceived or actual) value of the stat itself.
I’ll use Armor as an example here, as it highlights the problem better – Last Whisper is 35% total armor penetration. On a typical end-game tank, let’s say they have 250 armor (100 base, 150 bonus). To have % bonus armor penetration be equivalent to total armor penetration – this new last whisper would have to have 58% bonus armor penetration.
If there is an item in the game with 58% bonus armor penetration, you had either make armor cheap as hell and overpowered against anyone without bonus armor penetration – or more likely, players will naturally think buying armor is pointless.
[ Question ] Why is the AD value on Doran’s Blade going down again?
Â Xypherous:Â Mostly because every time we make Doran’s Blade more stackable, we have to keep in mind that we never want triple Doran’s to be the best option – just one of several potential options.
[ Question ] Why is the active on Mikael’s being nerfed, while the Mercurial Scimitar one is being buffed? Don’t they serve the same function?
Â Xypherous:Â There are two main differences as I see them.
1- Time to purchase – Mikael’s comes pretty early currently, even with the changes to Mercurial I don’t see it being picked up as a first or second item.
2- Free targeting versus self targeting – Scimitar only allows theÂ userÂ to cleanse stuns, CC effects etc. Mikael’s grants that power to anyone who gets picked/caught leaving the opponent no reasonable targets. Compare that to playing an Ashe/Varus vs an enemy with a Scimitar which gives you the option of simply targeting someone other than the holder of the Scimitar
[ Question ] With the nerfs to Randuin’s passive slow, how will Udyr be able to close gaps?
Â Feral Pony:Â The same way he’s always done it, 15 flat MS, 35% near constant Movement Speed Boost, and the lunge on Bear Stance. As a guy who loves playing Udyr myself, I’m not super concerned as the enemies I normally have trouble dealing with – really heavy peel- are largely unaffected by this change. That said the Live guys are going to be keeping an eye on the “unreliable” tanky men, such as Udyr as the patch goes out and see if further adjustment is needed.
[ Question ] Why buff AS items and nerf Randuin’s at the same time? Won’t this create balancing issues?
Feral Pony:Â The AS Boosts with the exception of the 5% boost on Zerker Greaves are all in the buildup on the items which means that late game AS (when Marksman are actually attacking enemies with WM/RO) it should be largely unchanged, so the RO changes will be effectively done in isolation.
[ Question ] Ardent Censer with an AoE shield/healÂ would potentially provide 3k Gold worth of stats.Â Won’t this create the same issues Warwick’s W does?
Â Feral Pony:Â Â Xpherous has mentioned this before but WW’s if effectively free and generally unappreciated (WW casts it mostly for himself) and we have to cut power from other parts of the kit to compensate which generally makes the character feel worse. Players opting into Ardent CensorÂ wantÂ to use this power and are paying a price for doing so at the expense of other items and choices.
[ Question ] Won’t Miss Fortune and Varus be weaker after these changes are implemented?
Â Xypherous:Â I agree with you that Miss Fortune / Varus are really going to suffer from the changes. It’s splash damage but I couldn’t see any way around it with this set of changes – it’s unfortunate.
That said, both of these characters do have alternate AS routes that pay off quite well – and hopefully the AS parts of their kit can tide them over until we figure out how to support MF / Varus mid/late games.
We managed to slip in the item for carries that are more in the vein of Ezreal / Corki – ones with spammy spells but moderate AD ratios.
[ Question ] Will you be doing any changes to Frozen Heart?
Â Xypherous:Â I don’t believe there are Frozen Heart changes in this patch – minus the fact that Warden’s is weaker and thus the build path is slightly weaker.
[ Question ] Will Essence Reaver allow Jayce to bypass Tear of the Goddess?
Â Xypherous:Â It does solve a lot of Jayce’s issues – but it’s also pretty swingy depending on lane matchup. Essence Reaver demands that you be able to autoattack a lot and in Jayce’s case – this may or may not be possible depending on the lane.
Essence Reaver also has less of a payoff than Manamune / Muramana – the reason AD Jayce is so strong is that he can get multiple procs off of Muramana’s toggle in a very short amount of time.
So, short answer: Maybe – depending on circumstance, although he won’t have as big of a payoff at the end of the game.
[ Question ] Why are you against “safe” picks such as Lucian?
Â Xypherous:Â We’re not against “Safe” picks. We’re against “Safe” picks that consistently win far more than unsafe picks – even though the strength of a “Safe” pick should be that it doesn’t get hard countered.
That is “Safe” picks are aboutÂ guaranteeingÂ aÂ minimumÂ win rate. For example, if you want a champion with truly no weaknesses and no capacity to be hard countered at all – what you’re asking for is a champion that is reliable but as a consequence – this automatically means that you should be less rewarded than picking a champion who might have bad matchups.
[ Question ] Will you be addressing top lane Champions this patch?
Â Xypherous:Â My team (Systems) will not be looking at them. Live Balance will be looking at individual champions as they were the ones pushing for Randuin’s changes and will ultimately be tasked with looking at how it affects individual fighters.
[ Question ] Are you watching what effect AS buffsÂ could have on outliers like Xin, Shyvana, Yi, Udyr, Nocturne, etc.?
Â Xypherous:Â Since it’s only the path that is getting smoother rather than the end amount of AD – I’m not too worried about the characters in question. In a final build, the only AS item that increased in power in total is Berzerker’s Greaves – and while many of those characters can get Greaves – they make major sacrifices in order to do so.
[ Question ] Have you considered what effect buffing BotRK will have on top lane?
Â Xypherous:Â Â BoRK loses threefold in terms of LS / Capture power and active nuke ability – in exchange for greater scaling off Attack Speed. While certain Attack Speed centric bruisers will be able to take advantage of this – I’m not actually sure I can make any comments about the Bruiser class with the Omen changes. While BoRK might be massively stronger on them in terms of damage – not having Omen would mean their overall effectiveness decreases.
[ Question ] Are you worried Essence Reaver might be abused by mana-dependent assassins, such as Talon?
Â Xypherous:Â Â As for Talon, if Talon actually decides to basic attack, he’ll be able to get mana back. This is something that Talon players, traditionally, have been resistant in doing – even though his basic attack basically cuts through things like butt r. However, Talon is a problem in that literally anything you make that might be attractive AD-wise makes Talon stronger in ways that no one particularly wants – thus it tends to be Talon that is the issue.
[ Question ] Will Randuin’s Omen see an increase in health or armor to compensate for the MS slow nerfs?
Â Xypherous:Â It ultimately depends on what live thinks at this point and how they want to adjust fighters around the item or the item around fighters.
Discussion on Melee vs Ranged in League
[ Question ] Will the interaction between Melee and Range ever be healthy?
Â Xypherous:Â Unless the fundamental expectations for what people want out of a melee champion change – I somehow doubt it. Part of this problem is that ‘Glass Melee’ is an archetype that people expect tremendous payoff for – but currently, there isn’t a good way to translate personal skill into better melee combat ability.
You can certainly make complex judgment calls and the like – but on the whole, MeleeÂ inputsÂ aren’t complex enough and melee combat at its core is fairly uninteresting and thus something has to change fundamentally on what melee combat means before even talking about melee vs. range. Melee vs. Melee isn’t that well explored or particularly interesting – for example.
For example, you can imagine a world in which every Melee character had some kind of roll innate basic ability that was slow but could deflect damage. That’s the kind of fundamental mechanical basic you would need on Melee in order to have the proper inputs to justify what people expect out of the fantasy of Glass Melee.
[ Question ] Isn’t Melee DPS supposed to achieve its goals without obscene durability?
Â Xypherous:Â I would be weary of assuming intentions here. I can’t read your mind on what a Melee without obscene durability is. Is it Riven? Is it Talon? Is it complete AD Yi? There isn’t a consensus on what the Melee DPS class is – and until there’s a consistent definition with clear success goals and failure cases outside of ‘I just want to be able to murder everyone, every team fight by right-clicking’ – it’s hard to say if everyone agrees on what they want.
For example, the last time I was in a conversation about the melee DPS class, the person said ‘Melee DPS’ but it was in reference to Season 1 Jax – which was the most durable champion on top of having the highest sustained damage.
[ Suggestion ] Make Melee DPS rely on proper rotation in relation to its target in a fight (which side it faces)
Â Xypherous:Â While it’s an interesting facet to consider – rotation doesn’t have a cost, and thus the skill expression here is mostly lost. The reason why a ranged carry’s positioning gameplay is important is because repositioning has a serious cost.
If rotation did have a significant cost – you’d pretty much murder every aspect of control that makes League what it is – plus, I’m uncertain of how much cost there would have to be in rotation in order to actually bring forth the gameplay that you are describing. Not to say that the gameplay you’re describing doesn’t work – it just tends to work in frameworks where movement is more of the game.
Though there would be some people that would favor that approach – it’s outside of what we consider acceptable as we value tight controls over strategic advantages.
However, I applaud your line of thinking on this part – trying to leverage the basic variables of melee in order to bring more skill expression on their basic actions is pretty rare to see. The approach you’re speaking of definitely works in a lot of games, especially ones involving vehicular combat (Tank Wars, raaawr!) where movement, in itself, is a whole game and thus sides / facing matter – it’s just hard to apply that pattern to LoL without other severe costs.
The problem is Ranged Champions are designed to express their strengths vs other archetypes, whereas Melee are not
Â Xypherous:Â Yeah – I think we agree on this point. It’s the set of basic actions available to everyone and how certain archetypes should interact with them that you need to leverage. We’re using different terminology here, of course but it boils down to, as you’ve said – what actions are available to everyone and how do players leverage that common set of actions to express skill in different ways.
[ Question ] Any long term plans for creating decisions based on actions that are available to everyone that can be leveraged by melee champions to express skill in different ways from a system wide point of view?
Â Xypherous:Â Not particularly interested in this approach at the moment – mostly because there does not appear to be a set of intuitive patterns that solve this.
Because of this, I suspect that it’s more likely that you’ll end up with a well designed game that no one will play.
Ultimately, you have to weigh the gains of supporting glass melee (6 to 8 champions) versus forcing every melee player to jump through an unintuitive hoop to get there.
That being said, however – I’m making that statement off of ignorance. There’s a lot of melee patterns and melee vs. melee knowledge that needs to be researched before we can actually talk about plans to do it. I’m fairly certain it would be premature to think about that pattern without understanding how melee are supposed to fight in general in a teamfight rather than how melee combat is supposed to be interesting in general.
For example, skarner might just never work with these demands, or if not him perhaps some other melee champion down the rework road. What then?
This argument cuts both ways. Whatever pattern you subject melee will inevitably cut off some patterns or portions of design space that may be crucial to the identity of some characters.
You can claim that Skarner will never be work without going down the global solution path – but in all reality, the global solution probably says that some portion of the population is fundamentally flawed identity wise and needs to be destroyed.
In either approach – you will be nuking some character identities period.
Some Summoners are experiencing a repeating wave of Chat Restrictions. Learn how the punishment system has translated between shutting down the Tribunal and now.
[ Question ] Why am I endlessly chat-restricted?
Â Â Slumber Jack:Â Hi there!
I get this question a lot and I think this would be a good opportunity for me to clear up how the new automated chat restrictions work, as it’s catching a lot of players off-guard that they’re being punished immediately after finishing all of their chat restricted games.
At the time the Tribunal was taken down, if you had what was a relatively poor standing with the Tribunal we would issue you a chat restriction. The worse your standing was, the worse the chat restriction.
Once you’ve finished all of your chat restrictions, we basically take another look at your account and see where you stand with the would-be Tribunal. If you still have a relatively poor standing with it, we issue more chat-restricted games. What you’ll basically see is this: if you never improve, you’ll be hit with a lot more chat-restricted games and you’ll find yourself always chat-restricted. If you get better, you will see less and less chat-restricted games being issued.
A way to tell if you’re improving would be this: You finish your chat-restricted games, get issued 20 games. You finish those, you get issued 17. That would mean in the course of those 20 games, you improved but your standing with the would-be Tribunal is still not very good. You’re ever-so-slowly moving in the right direction, though.
I hope this clears it up a bit!
[ Question ] Why not issue the max amount of Chat restrictions in the first place?
Â Â Slumber Jack:Â Some people take the opportunity to improve very seriously.
I could issue one guy a 40-game chat restriction, and he doesn’t take it seriously and gets hit with 20… and another 20… and another 20…
I could issue another guy a 40-game chat restriction, and he’s like “oh ****, maybe I should stop calling everyone racial slurs”, he gets it together and ends his 40-game chat restriction and receives no more.
Beyond our initial wave of chat-restrictions, it’s the player who gets to decide how long their chat restriction is.
[ Question ] Why am I only now getting Chat restricted?
Â Â Slumber Jack: We took the Tribunal down because, well, it wasn’t doing what we needed it to do. Which is create cases in a timely manner.
If you didn’t receive any cases before we started handing out chat restrictions, it is likely you were among the many who should have been hit by the Tribunal but because it was having some difficulties you just never got hit. Honestly, if you started with a 60-game chat restriction, there is a high probability that had the Tribunal been working you would’ve been suspended many times by now. Maybe even permanently.
[ Question ] Â Why is Lucian getting a new skin when older Champions haven’t received skins in so long?
Â Riot Whist:Â We didn’t pick these champions based on “who deserves a skin”. We picked them because they had the best ideas made for them (we wanted one skin for each role too so one had to be an ADC). The reference to a real-world player we could do with Lucian was too good to pass up over just tossing another ADC in a jersey with no interesting references or theme.
We take good ideas over a hard ordered list of who needs a skin next. There’s no point in hindering creativity and spinning our wheels on a skin that just isn’t cutting it because that champion was “next in line”. We do consider what champs could use a skin though when we’re brain storming. Sometimes you just need to sit on something and do something else while you work on that next great idea.
Sorry you feel this way, if it helps ease your pain, there are no Teemo skins currently in the pipeline.
[ Question ] Why didn’t the Football Skins receive any extra attention?
Â RiotBaconhawk:Â Actually, try using TF’s ultÂ
These skins are not legendaries, like Super Galaxy Rumble or anything, so we didn’t add new particles/new animations, but they are freaking awesome and we’re really happy to make them!
cawws and flies off
If you have any questions, feel free to ask me atÂ @NoL_ChefoÂ or e-mail me at firstname.lastname@example.org.