As top talent from around the world get ready to battle for regional pride in Florida, weâ€™re excited to unveil our 2015 Mid-Season Invitational shoutcasters, analysts and hosts. A mix of on-air talent from regional leagues around the world will be providing commentary, analysis, interviews, predictions, and puns for the English language broadcast of MSI.
Below are the voices and faces that will be narrating your journey through MSI as part of our on-air team:
Joshua â€œJattâ€ Leesman
Sam â€œKobeâ€ Hartman-Kenzler
David â€œPhreakâ€ Turley
Rivington Bisland III
Martin â€œDeficioâ€ Lynge
Trevor â€œQuickshotâ€ Henry
Eefje â€œSjokzâ€ Depoortere
LCK, LPL, and IWC
Christopher â€œMonteCristoâ€ Mykles
Erik â€œDoAâ€ Lonnquist
Max â€œAtlusâ€ Anderson
James â€œDashâ€ Patterson
Aidan â€œZireneâ€ Moon
Jake â€œSpawnâ€ Tiberi
Back at our LA studio, our panel of analysts will be debating over predictions and sharing recaps of the MSI matches. Weâ€™ll also be having guest spots for pro players and former pros joining us at the analyst desk throughout the event. Weâ€™ll update this post as we confirm more of the guests including:
Alberto â€œCrumbzâ€ Rengifo
You wonâ€™t want to miss a single day of the 2015 Mid-Season Invitational. Meet the team over at Lolesports on May 7 at 4:00pm PDT to catch the beginning of the Group Stages with the clash of North Americaâ€™s TSM against Europeâ€™s Fnatic.
When we changed Nidalee’s “Hunt” passive to apply to jungle monsters, we also made it so that hunted monsters would be rooted for 2 seconds when debuffed. This was to prevent those frustrating situations when Nidalee would spear a monster over a wall only to have it run out of Pounce range trying to get her. This was included with Nidalee’s 5.2 changes, we just forgot to document this one. Sorry!
[ QUIT RUNNING I’M TRYING TO HUNTÂ ] Hunted’ monsters are also rooted for 2 seconds after being debuffed so that Nidalee can actually get in range to Pounce on them.Â This change was included in 5.2, we just forgot to document it. Sorry!
[ BUGFIX ]Â Fixed an issue causing combinations of high mouse sensitivity and low FPS to result in delayed response when clicking repeatedly
[ Â STILL NOT ZAC ]Â Fixed a visual bug that turned Primal Udyr into a stretchy blob after dying and respawning
This is a discussion following a recently-released dev blog, which you can find here.
Here’s how I see things:
We have plans and opportunities.
The plans include a lot of the known big updates, the Visual & Gameplay Updates (VGU’s) which are planned out usually super far as they need a lot of planning for execution. The projects can take months to do (maybe a year). They’re heavily comprehensive. They’re often used for the worst offenders in our game, often characters that need complete gameplay, art and thematic rebuilding, sometimes one of those aspects, sometimes all. The Sions, Tarics, etc. We slot and fantasy slot these far in advance.
The opportunities include lower scope Model & Texture Updates (MTU’s) which aren’t planned quite as far out, and are usually jumped on when we see an open slot, or a new gameplay update has been cracked, or we have the ability to borrow art resources from another team. Also when they’re themeatically “safe”. Nasus was done in this way. The legendary skin enabled his VU. These MTU’s are usually built on what we have, existing rig, tweaked animations, etc. The reason being is that if we made them as high scope as full large-scope projects, you wouldn’t see them for a year or more. We simply can’t accomodate doing 8 Sions a year.
While yes, a lot of these champions could benefit from complete tear-downs, we have great opportunities that present themselves. In Kassadin’s situation, Tokkelossie, being a big Kassadin fan, had made a completely new model on his own time. So boom, we had a start. Additionally, we started working with an outsourcer that has proven really, REALLY effective in making quality models, and we’ve begun to leverage them on skins, especially existing skins for VU’s. The fast ramp-up can be attributed to having the existing new base model, some work the skins team had been doing, his VFX being in a good place, and a 3D external partner able to handle both reconcepting and remodelling the existing skins allowed us to jump on this.
Would it be nice to burn everything down and rebuilt it from scratch? Sure, if we can do that in an optimal time. We could knock down the house, re-pour the foundation, build a new frame, etc. But sometimes, because the opportunity to save time and resources is there, we build on top of a workable foundation with the frame intact.
A lot of time goes into writing the backstory, bio, script, the in-game text, recording the VO, editing, processing, localizing, casting and recording in 15+ languages around the world…
If we were to do this with every champion we wanted, we wouldn’t be putting out a new update but once every so often. So while we take our larger projects through this longer pipeline, we cant take every project champion update chooses to touch through the process.
That said, we arent ruling out VO for future projects just yet. We are deliberating what can take the longer road for the upcoming year.
Right now, with the current outlook, Kassadin VO wouldn’t be in scope with what we’re planning. It’s of course a nice-to-have, but right now the bandwidth we have is mainly in the modelling department. Given the current constraints we feel what we’re planning will add value in a time frame that won’t leave players hanging for a year.
Cho’gath is pretty massive in scope. Currently he’s someone we’d like to fantasy slot, but it’ll be entirely dependent on technical resources that are allocated to the team. Right now there’s not enough animation bandwidth to do what we’d really want to do. That said, we may try experimenting with him on the Battlecast rig which might allow us to speed up development, that’s not an immeidate priority right now but it’s one I’d personally like to see us take on sooner than later.
This is all built around the assumption that “her core weakness is that she can be ganked pre-6”
I’m sorry, but that’s ludicrous. She used to be easier to gank pre-6, and now it’s a bit harder. Ok, so that changed a little bit. So what?
Here’s the thing: Ahri didn’t have a real weakness. If the only weakness you can point out is, “Well, for 6 minutes you could kill her, but for the other 35 she could do whatever she wanted” that’s stupid. That’s not good design, that’s not healthy, that’s not anything good. For what it’s worth, a lot of the reason LeBlanc is frustrating is because of this – She just sort of does whatever she wants all game and you just have to deal with it.
You also mentioned “ruining her build diversity.” It’s not mentioned anywhere outside the intro. So I’m really not sure where that point’s headed.
And Ahri already IS squishy. She’s one of the frailest champions in the game. Even Annie has an Armor/MR shield. Cassiopeia builds fairly tanky with (RoA/Seraph + Rylai’s). The point of the changes is to actually EXPOSE the squishiness. Her W puts her in Equilibrium Strike range. GOOD.
See, here’s the thing about Ahri now. She’s really mobile. She has medium-speed medium-range skillshots. She also has non-skillshots with very short range. You know what’s cool about that? She can skirt around medium range poking with skillshots. She can also use her high mobility to get into close range and put herself at actual risk to land her reliable damage. Sounds like an actual weakness! She’s in range of Equilibrium Strike if she wants to do more than poke. And then skillfully use her movement speed buffs and dashes (with long cooldowns after) in order to succeed.
Sounds a hell of a lot better than, “Well, now it’s after 6 minutes, her core weakness is gone.”
Also, increasing the mana cost of QÂ DOESÂ affect her early game: If she can’t simply spam Q on cooldown for immense sustain and easy wave clear, she’s going to have less overall sustain and forced to walk into autoattack range to last hit more often.
Ultimately, it’s always tricky dealing with reworks, either small- or large-scale. I’d consider Ahri’s total changes now a small-scale rework. Ahri now:
Is much more mobile than before. She’s arguably the most mobile mage in the game who can’t dash over walls before level 6.
Has a medium-range poke pattern as well as a short-range all-in pattern that uses multiple rotations of spells (as opposed to Fizz just REQW’ing you, Ahri Q-R-E-W-R-Q-W-R-W) supported by a lot of mobility to keep her in the fight (as opposed to something like Jax who just tanks you until he gets multiple ulti hits)
Ahri no longer: * Hits you with her entire kit from out of your counter-attack range and then dashes away
And of course, any time a champion “no longer” does something, everyone who’s attached to it gets really scared, because a specific thing their champion used to do doesn’t exist any more. But really, Ahri shouldn’t be hitting you with non-skillshots while dodging everything you ever do. If she’s hitting you with non-skillshots, you should be able to hit her back. Ahri’s power is in getting to choose when those windows are. That’s always been the core power of Ahri: Her ability to choose those windows and if she chose wrong, say “Oh crap” and burn her other two Rs backwards.
I can definitely appreciate the perspective that she isn’t really crowding out support selection diversity. That said, we want to stay on top of the successes and shortcomings of all of our champion reworks, and we feel that some of Sona’s gameplay patterns are not the most healthy experience for bot lane. Fighting Sona has a lot of strategic depth that you talk about (pick hard engage or burst characters like Leona to fight her), but we want counterplay to extend past champion select and still be relevant tactically (in lane). The MS change is intended to give enemies without extremely strong engagement capabilities a fair shot at fighting Sona, without exaggerating her weaknesses to hard engage that something like a base HP/armor adjustment would do.
Understandably, Sona isn’t perceived as particularly strong, given that she isn’t being picked every game (especially in competitive play), and does not seem like she is taking over games that she is in. That said, we have a lot of tools and data we use for examining the game, and in addition to some of the play pattern issues I mentioned, we do feel that she is on the strong side for supports for a wide range of ELOs. Keep in mind, this is intended to be a pretty small nerf overall.
Now let’s talk about a few of the other issues you mentioned.
1) Jungle diversity is an issue we agree we can help improve. Next patch you’ll see some movement towards what you’re talking about (for instance, Hecarim and Skarner are getting a little love).
2) There are some counterplay issues with a few assassins in our game. These problems are pretty complex ones to solve, and some of the champions you mention definitely need some changes to stay healthy (I think Zed is probably at the top of that list right now).
3) Top lane is a much bigger issue. There are so many factors involved here (power of Teleport, relevance of Dragon, power of Marksmen vs Fighters, etc.) that this is a larger scope problem that would take multiple patches to work on. But you definitely make a great point, there are some issues in champion diversity top lane and we need to do some work on that.
The changes we’re putting in this PBE cycle for Sona will be going out with the next patch, but hearing opinions from Sona players and seeing this discussion is very valuable for us in the future if we need to reexamine the state she’s in.
The feedback regarding how players feel that so much of her power is weighted in her Q is useful. Also agreed regarding Q Power Chord pushing out other choices (this is part of what the changes are supposed to address, but we may need more work here).
I also want to thank everyone for contributing your view in this thread (particularly the constructive posts…); improving communication with our players is something I always want to be working on.
On the one hand, you’re right: The number of unique champions played in top tier competitive play is dwindling slowly over time. The real question is “Why?”
You could certainly force a wider variety. You could say “Okay, you can only play each champion once per month / once per series / if your opponents haven’t played it either.” Enforcing a wider variety of champions can be interesting because you’ll see more of them played. You could have 20 bans. You’ll definitely see different stuff played if you do that.
Another question can be if just “Champion named Ezreal was picked” counts as one unique pick. What about Mid Ezreal vs. ADC Ezreal? What about Support Nautilus vs. Jungle? Kayle Top/Mid/Support? How about different builds? AP Amumu vs. Tank Amumu? You can track the specifics of “Champion named X was picked.” Does that tell the whole story? Do you care if they were built differently? AP Mid vs. AD Bot Kog’Maw? I’d argue this counts as a “different” pick, but it’s of course not tracked as that. Certainly, an edge case, but it’s food for thought.
On that line of reasoning, I think 2014 was a year full of flex picks. We saw Karma, Lulu, and a whole host of other mages go in various lanes. Would a better line of reasoning be, “How many Supports did we see this year? How many Mid Laners did we see this year?” Double-counting Jayce doesn’t make for a very interesting comparison, but Annie might count. I think we saw more flex picks in 2014 than any other year. There were probably at least two dozen champions that were played in more than one role this year in professional play.
The game has also become more homogenized. Up until halfway through Season One, many teams weren’t running ADC+Support bottom lanes. Now it’s considered commonplace. Not everyone knew Kassadin was crazy strong throughout 2013, Cloud9 least of which, but he defined the first half of 2014’s Ban phase. Nowadays everyone’s watching the Koreans and saying, “Ah, LeBlanc and Corki are contested. We should all learn them.” The fact that all the top-tier players have a standard to look to and compel themselves to emulate shrinks our champion pools significantly.
I specifically asked Cloud9’s Hai about this at the beginning of 2014. He said they sat down, had a meeting, and told me (paraphrased), “We chose to drop our old playstyle. We should play like SKT. They won the world championship. Let’s be like them” Well, SKT couldn’t even qualify for Worlds the next year. I’m not certain that emulating a specific team or style of play in a constantly-evolving game is the right way to thrive. Cloud9 had, consecutively, their worst splits ever after making the decision, “Let’s copy SKT.” Throughout 2013 they made their own rules. Meteos made his own jungle style. Sneaky and LemonNation pulled in their own champion pools and style (Hello, Ashe/Zyra). Certainly, other factors than just “not innovating” led to teams taking more games off C9 than before; I’m just bringing up trends I see.
I think the trend actually feeds on itself. Because everyone’s compelled to learn specific champions because “better teams” do so, everyone shares similar champion pools. And because you can easily predict your opponent’s champions, and magically you ALSO play those champions, it means you have heavily contested picks. I know they want Corki. Well I know how to play Corki! Let’s first pick Corki. This repeats for every role, 2-3 champions deep. Some players branch out and have their own fun touches (Xerath players, Rengar players, Rumble players, Vayne players, etc.) but anything that sees a lot of success falls back into the old pattern of, “Oh this champion’s successful, let’s all learn it.”
In my opinion, almost every single champion in League of Legends can be that champion. The next Rengar is out there. The next Support Annie or Support Morgana is out there. People just arbitrarily started playing them and everyone decided it was a good idea. But people seem to glom onto them really, really hard, so the pools decrease.
What’s the way to fix that? Is it OK to “force open” the champion pools? Should we just track “# of Supports played” across seasons and trend that? What should change?
Ryze, Warwick (except ultimate), Orianna, Jinx, Morgana… The list goes on pretty much the entire way.
Very few champions have no mobility abilities, so it’s easy to say, “Well, mobility wins.” Except that Looper showed us both Singed and Kayle as completely dominant champions. Talon can only jump to enemies, and crushed people. Jayce likewise, same impact.
So, I have to reiterate, that saying things like “Cut in half” is very odd when there is I think literally one melee champion without some way of moving faster in Mordekaiser, and then some other fraction only has movement speed buffs… Yet we saw Dr. Mundo played for most of the split. And again, as far as ranged champions go, I think literally every conventional Support doesn’t contain tactical mobility skills. Twitch was arguably the defining ADC of the World Championship. Orianna hasn’t gone anywhere in literally ever, and neither has Rumble.
Now you can make the point that champions can be come non-viable, but mobility is an absolute red herring.
That’s not quite correct, though I understand where you’re coming from.
We are not, as a game, against a champion being viable in multiple roles. We’re fine with Lulu working in 4 roles right now. We’re fine with Karma working in the same ones. We’re fine with Hecarim as a jungler as well as a Mid Laner (and I’m sure he’s fine Top also).
The changes to champions when they worked in certain lanes came from the gameplay impact of that lane. When Janna walked into lane, Pressed Q in the vague direction of the minions, and then immediately last hit the entire wave, that was an issue. When Lulu clicked “E” and then pressed “Q” twice, causing you to lose 50% of your health without it honestly being a real skill shot, that was the issue. When Annie’s low level base damages and stun were so obnoxiously high you immediately lost any possible 2v2 fight bottom lane, that was the issue.
Notice how literally nothing changed about Karma after we saw Bjergsen get a pentakill on her in the LCS playoffs, despite being played as a support the week before. Lulu hasn’t been changed in about 4 months (E duration on enemies being the big change) after her mid lane pattern became significantly less toxic.
The awkward thing about all of this is that it’s not that pro teams were looking for support mids to play. They didn’t immediately replace Janna with Morgana, or Karma, or Lulu, or Soraka. They played mid Janna because she was bullshit. They played mid Soraka because she was bullshit. Pros really like to pick champions that are un-counterable. Their opponents are, just like them, extremely skilled League of Legends players. If you can find a champion that CANNOT be outplayed, that’s a really strong champion to play in top tier play. So while a lot of people see, “Oh, Janna got played outside of her recommended lane, so Riot nerfed her,” what’s actually happening is, “Janna mid has no counterplay, let’s add some.” And then to pros go, “Oh, this champion has counterplay? Time to find something else to abuse.”
These creatures (Voidspawn at least) has no reason or natural behavior to attacking other void things.
This may be a normal void behavior – at least for the more “basic” void creatures – but there’s been no other real cases where we’ve gotten to see what the unchained whims of a void creature has been. The Voidlings you see in game are mostly under the control of Malzahar and thus could be directed against what is natural for them.
Voidspawn, unlike voidlings, aren’t “directed”. They have a sense of team apparently, but beyond that you have no way of really directing them. Their behaviors are very simple. This is probably due to opening a portal for them to come through is suitably different than calling for their service. It might also explain their volatility.
Of course the real reason for them ignoring void targets is that, gameplay wise, it was kind of boring to cancel a void gate with another void gate since it just meant inaction for both sides. Making them ignore all void targets was a “clean” way of solving that issue and allowed for a cute “also ignores voidlings” secret behavior.
Yes. I have adjusted the AP ratios to be a bit healthier (less free burst for just clicking R) but her overall burst power will still be the same if you use the new E correctly. There will be more emphasis on her jumping in to do her combo instead of just click E click R though.
One of the long standing issues that we’ve had with Azir is that his Q behaved a little unpredictably sometimes. UnknownMartian most recently posted a Youtube video to reddit that lays out the problem clearly:
TLDR: When assigning soldiers positions for Conquering Sands (Q), Azir would historically grab all soldiers on the map in random order (most often this would happen to be in order of creation, but not always). As demonstrated in the video, in the three soldier case this sometimes leads to an unfortunate situation where the nearest soldier is assigned one of the side positions, 240 units off your mouse cursor.
I took some time tonight to rewrite how Q works and cleaned up some bugs surrounding the 2/4 soldier cases as well (4 soldiers is technically possible, but very, very rare). Here’s the breakdown, with pictures!
Pretty straightforward. Goes where you click. Your click position is a 75 radius green circle, the calculated soldier position is a 100 radius red circle. In this case they’re identical.
The soldiers align themselves around your target position, equidistant to the left and right of it. The nearest soldier always goes to the left position, viewed from Azir’s perspective along the axis of your cast direction.
This is the situation from Unknown Martian’s video. I fixed this so the nearest soldier will always go to the MIDDLE, which is the position that you clicked on. The second closest will go to the left and the farthest will go to the right.
This is very rare and hard to achieve. Hint: both Q and AA extend soldier lifetime by a fractional amount in certain situations. Not something I expect players will be able to exploit in real games, but just in case. As you can see, the first row of soldiers places itself slightly nearer to you than where you clicked, with the nearest soldier going to the center. This is only a difference of 120 units, and Q overshoots by 50 units, so this difference shouldn’t make you miss (we do check forward an additional 100 units at the end of a Q to see if we can find someone to hit anyway, so it’s a moot point).
None of this has been QA checked yet so details may change or the rollout of these changes may be delayed. They will also not be in the next patch; at the earliest, they will be in the patch after that.
On the forums, Phreak addressed the viability of immobile carries like Ashe, Miss Fortune and Varus. A currently popular exploit involving Blade of the Ruined King’s active is being investigated by Riot; note that exploiters are being perma-banned. Lastly, rumors of Middle-eastern servers, a thread to post performance issues with the new map, and an explanation from Morello on the delay of Cassiopeia’s PBE changes.
I think it’s very easy to say, “Look at these weaknesses. This champion is horrible.” IMO every champion should have easily-identified weaknesses. Otherwise, why wouldn’t you pick the champion? It’d be a no-brainer. For example, I can take any of the top played champions from the recent World Championship and make a case for them being terrible.
Zilean: This is a mid-lane mage with no lategame. Only has one damage skill. And if we’re in “league of late-game AD Carries” why would I want to pick this champion? If I revive an ADC with Chronoshift, he just dies right again anyway. IDK what the point of this champion is. I’d much rather play something like Jayce who does more damage, scales harder, gives an AoE speed boost instead of single target, and actually has self-peel, unlike Zilean.
Alistar top: Wow, a “tank” champion whose only tank stats come from my ultimate? What if our opponents try to fight us more than every 2 minutes? This champion’s useless. I have to go into melee range to CC, but then I just die right after. And I have to build damage as a top laner. How else can I threaten the back line? Such a useless champion design. I’d rather just be Maokai who has a really short ultimate cooldown, more damaging abilities, and way better healing during a fight and in lane.
Lee Sin: Wow, absolutely no late game. With how much champions like Thresh and Janna are being played, there’s just no way I can land Q-Q-Ward-W-R without my opponent Flashing, simply dashing away (Lucian, Tristana, etc.), or the support just peeling me off. Add the fact that I have to go Lizard Elder, yet still don’t actually deal that much damage, means I can’t be a tank either. How is this champion supposed to team fight?
And the list goes on. Janna has a weak laning phase and no sustain. Twitch has no escapes. Tristana has no mid-game. Lucian’s ultimate is easily blocked by tanks.
What it comes down to is that every champion has STRENGTHS, too. There were two different periods in League competitive history where Miss Fortune was a top 3 AD Carry. One was right after her release where here base stats and laning power were so strong, you just wanted to crush lane. She had all the same weaknesses: No self-peel, no in-combat mobility… And yet she had this other strength of lane dominance that made her not only worth playing, but the premiere pick. The second was in early Season Three I believe when Miss Fortune+Amumu was the comp to beat. Area of Effect team fighting. That’s another strength of hers. And we saw at the World Championship people went back to champions like Rumble. We know teamfighting is still really important. But no one decided to try MF/Amumu for whatever reason, so she’s “weak.”
Also keep in mind that every champion has synergies and anti-synergies. We live in one of two worlds: 1. Champion select, item builds, counter-picks, etc. are entirely irrelevant. 2. Teammate and opponent champions are important and have a direct impact on champions’ success.
I think it’s pretty likely we live in World #2. This means that Miss Fortune’s (for example) power is in fact tied to the types of teammates and enemies she goes up against. There have been multiple times in the past where her environment made her sought-after (early laning was important, people really wanted team fight power). And it’s really easy to bring that back: Just choose to play for team fights, dragons, etc. And with League of Legends being a team game, it’s not too hard to say, “Hey, let’s play Miss Fortune+Amumu.” That’s a world where she thrives.
The final thought I want to share in on the metagame. By definition the metagame is what everyone ELSE is playing. You don’t have to pick Lee Sin, Lucian, and Kha’Zix just because everyone else is. The weird thing is, while competitive players pick their own small champion pools and play within their defined metagame, there are twice as many champions out there that are actually MORE successful in the game that WE are all playing. And other players don’t have to define what we play.
Â Even within the current metagame (omg how could you be immobile? Kha’Zix will kill you!) Ashe is one of the top 3 most successful AD Carries right now in high MMR. No, she doesn’t deal as much damage as Tristana. No she’s not as safe as Tristana. But she stuns someone from 1500 range away. You can literally never be out of position against her or you give up a free kill and a turret. Tristana can’t do that. And again, I’m talking about Diamond-level players here. Ashe excels (more than Lucian, more than Tristana, more than Twitch, more than Kog’Maw) with and against elite players.
Not what I’m saying at all. I’m just pointing to a specific stat that exemplifies how powerful she is. I feel like it’s easy to strawman and be like “Well yeah newbs will get caught, but that won’t fly in top tier.” However, I’m pointing out that even in the top 1% or something, a CC-oriented AD Carry with no escapes is still exceptionally powerful. Ashe is very strong in all skill tiers last I checked.
As the 2014 season comes to an end, we wanted to take a moment to celebrate players who have demonstrated positive behavior. As a first step,Â players who havenâ€™t been chat restricted or had their account suspended in the 2014 season will receive a 5-win IP boost this Friday, November 14th. Due to the number of players receiving this reward, weâ€™ll be granting the bonuses over the next week. Keep an eye out for a shiny new boost icon next to your IP balance.
We’ve recently been focused on addressing extreme cases of verbal toxicity, and will soon be testing additional systems that address gameplay toxicity like leavers, AFKs, and intentional feeders. However, itâ€™s important to keep in mind that players engaging in these behaviors really are not welcome in our community. Fewer than 1% of players have been escalated to a 14-day ban or permanent ban or even received a chat restriction.
As we mentioned previously, weâ€™ve been testing some new chat ban systems and wanted to give you guys an update on our progress:
As of 11/13/2014,Â 95% of active players in 2014 have never received a punishment of any kind. The vast majority of you have not received chat restrictions, ranked restrictions, game bans or permanent bans this year!
So letâ€™s spend some time highlighting the awesome behaviors in our community. If youâ€™re a positive player in League, and are OK sharing some of your recent chat logs with the rest of the community, please post a reply here!
If you do, make sure youâ€™ve verified your email account, because you may see another bonus head your way in the near future.
[ Explanation ] A recent exploit was reported on Reddit; players would spam BotRK’s active without cooldown, instantly killing champions.
Wulalowe: We are aware of an item exploit that some summoners are using. We are actively detecting and banning players abusing the exploit as well as working on a long term solution to this issue. Thank you for your patience while we work on this.
We are aware of the exploit that some players have been using to instantly eliminate champions. We are actively working on the matter to have it resolved as soon as possible. In addition, all players found guilty of using this method will receive an appropriate sanction for using it.
There has been a fair amount of threads opened for that issue, and we will not be able to reply to each of them; we hope this post will help you see that we are working on it.
Note that as always, naming and shaming on the forums is not allowed.Â
Edit: No need to contact Player Support anymore as we have enough information about this and will not require individual reports. Thanks everyone!
We’re aware of the issue and actively working on a solution. Anyone who uses the exploit will certainly be punished appropriately.
Generally in that situation – additional reports do nothing to increase our awareness or improve our ability or desire to address it as quickly as possible, so at this point more than anything you’re just raising awareness to more folks who might want to try it.
The other thing to note that “proof” in the sense of calling out an individual is certainly witch-hunting. We have technological means to identify and verify people who are doing this.
We’re hearing some reports about players hitting performance-related issues on the updated Summoner’s Rift, and we’re actively investigating all possible causes.
While we look under the hood for potential optimizations on our end, there’s also a possibility that the updated Rift just doesn’t play nice with certain setups. For those with performance issues, we’d appreciate if you could:
Update your drivers
Adjust your environmental settings (try turning some down, as the scales got recalibrated! Your ‘medium’ settings on the old SR might actually be closer to a ‘low’ on the updated Summoner’s Rift -Â even with the same performance)
Disable HUD animations
If none of the above work, you can help us out by posting a description of the issue in this thread along with a DxDiag:
Click the START button on the bottom left corner (default) or press the Windows Key.
TypeÂ dxdiagÂ in the search box and press ENTER.
Click “Save All Information…” on the bottom right of the DirectX Diagnostic Tool.
Attach the file here.
We’re seeing a lot of machines run the same or better on the new Summoner’s Rift, but that’s exactly what these staged rollouts are for – tracking down the unforeseen performance considerations and figuring them out.
We’ll continue to provide updates via this thread on our efforts and thanks for your patience.
Thanks for all the dxdiags guys. That’s going to help us solve the problem much faster.
In the meantime, we think it may be an audio issue. I know it sucks, but if you guys disable sound you might see better performance. This isn’t permanent and we’re looking into a fix as I type this, but give it a shot in the interim. Thanks again. We’re on it!
Sorry, but we’ve had some nasty snafu’s with our PBE push. This is some process and technical stuff that’s preventing us from getting the latest Casseopia changes into the PBE – it’s pretty normal development, but it’ll take a bit to get that out (like about a week or so) due to how PBE and live branching works.
Stash is still iterating based on this and has new things on the kit, but we’re going to have to sorta shotgun them out on his next available PBE push. And since this is a new process to him, he didn’t know this when he talked to you guys.
When we can, we’ll show you the stuff you’ve talked about on PBE. Until then, sit tight, and thanks for being cool about it!
Riot_nicolo: We will re-boot our analysis for Middle East guys.
I don’t want to be dismissive because we will indeed do another territory analysis for this region, but I also need to manage your exceptions: we may not go with local servers there
To be transparent, the biggest challenge for the Middle East region is to find a server spot that improve latency for the whole region and to make sure there are enough CCU (concurrent players) at a given time to ensure reasonable matchmaking.
For example, if we put servers in Egypt, players in Saudi Arabia may have a worse ping because of Internet infrastructure: most connections from Saudi would through europe first before going back to Egypt. And vice versa. There are potential solutions for this so don’t lose hope but what we are saying this is not just a simple geographical equation. The Internet infrastructure is not that simple.
And if ping is only improved to a subset of the player base, it might take forever to find a match in matchmaking and then start a vicious cycle: players try the server, see it takes forever to find a match, which is then not super balanced, and thus go to the more populated server.
Then of course there are other challenges. We are still working on a few other data centers that we need to finish (NA east coast players, we haven’t forgotten you) and should we solve Middle East server location, we’d still need to work on a lot of other stuff (localization, transfer, etc…)
Hope that offers some perspective. I understand the frustration, I now live in a place where I also don’t have great ping. I promise we will look at it again. But can’t promise a solution yet.
Cheers and thanks for your continued support guys!
As promised yesterday, Lead Champion Designer MeddlerÂ has shared an outline of QoL changes to look forward to for Urgot as well as plans for his rework. Also, Phreakjoins Xelnath‘s discussion about the limited champion pool in LCS from yesterday. As a bonus, an awesome collection of super-detailed pencil sketches by artist Nathelm!
Long delayed update here and a change of plans. My original hope had been that we’d be able to rework Urgot’s gameplay without needing substantial art support. That’s proven to be too optimistic however, with the sort of changes we’d like to make including some new skills and other functionality changes that need animation, spell effects, sound and potentially model changes.
Urgot is on our list for such a full rework, that’s a ways off though (Sion’s up next for major reworks, and we’ve been tentatively discussing Poppy as an option for after that, though that’s not yet certain). As a result the new plan’s to do some much shorter term work on Urgot that, while it won’t fix everything, should help out on some of his issues and get him into a better spot until we’re free to do larger scale work on him.
That shorter term work’s potentially going to be split into a couple of patches. The first (and I’m guessing that would be around patch 4.15, though not certain on that yet) focusing on some general cleanup and quality of life, with a possible follow up set of changes to add in a bit more power if appropriate.
Tentative list of changes we’re looking at for that first patch (note, not yet in testing, so may well change):
Basic attack missile speed increased to 1600 (from 1300)
– Given Urgot’s short attack range a more responsive auto attack’s appropriate for the risk he’s often putting himself in
Recommended item update
Some minor visual effects clean up
Acid Hunters now check for Noxian Corrosive Charge on both start and end of Acid Hunter cast
– Currently only checks at start of cast, penalizing swift follow up shots after firing the E at long range and attempts to sneak in a final homing shot as Noxian Corrosive Charge is close to expiring)
Mana cost increased to 50 (from 40), half mana cost refunded on kill
– Primary goal here is to punish Urgot less for last hitting with Acid Hunters when he needs to. Slight increase in cost to maintain a bit more harass cost, though still aiming to have this be a net buff to Urgot’s mana usage.
CD reduced to 120/110/100 (from 120)
– Adding a bit of late game power, without increasing his potential lane bully case
Mana cost reduced to 100 (from 120)
– Standardization with standard ult mana cost
As above this is an initial set of changes targeted at feel and clean up more than power. Assuming these don’t spike his power substantially (think it’s unlikely they will, but been wrong before) we’ll then look into whether there are some other safe buffs we can throw his way too. To be clear however Urgot’s still got some substantial game health issues in his kit so we’re not going to just keep throwing raw power at him until he’s back to his previous problematic state.
Just some minor changes aimed at convenience for existing Urgot players/better starting point for new Urgot players (Last Whisper in, Doran’s Blade start, Mercurial out, Brutalizer/Tear/Glacial Shroud in explicitly not just as components etc).
Note: Your Summoner Name might be cool, but it will never be Potato Jesus cool.
Yeah, would definitely want to add some compensatory power somewhere if we go ahead with those changes and they cut significant power off Urgot. Not sure what form that would take yet though, few things such as a the possible mana scaling above, I’d want to look into to help make that decision.
One change I’d like to test, but have only limited confidence in at present, is having his shield scale with mana instead of AP. Doing so would offer some additional build distinction for Urgot (tanky mana build versus raw AD/pen build) and supports using Tear which I feel’s fun and synergizes well with the Q refund change if that sticks. Potential downsides are a risk of forcing Urgot down a single build path, damage and tankiness from one stat via Manamune/Muraman (snowball issues) or alternatively, if the Muramana changes go through, a lack of appropriate mana items to support such a passive.
Next major rework (so full visual update, really big kit changes, lore update etc). Might well see some smaller reworks and/or visual updates first though, not certain on the timing of those off the top of the head.
Context: This is a follow-up on Xelnath‘s yesterday response about why few Champions see competitive play.
I’d like to chime in too, if you don’t mind:
Also realize that the LCS is only eight teams per region. Not everyone plays every champion. Thinking back to last season, it took people a long time to pick up Zed, despite being a ridiculously strong champion. Players often justdon’t find the champion, despite being an awesome pick overall.
I remember replying to a thread on this very forum where a player was like “Dude wtf look how bad Zed looked in this Korean game. Come on Riot, buff Zed. He missed his Q and did no damage. Clearly a trash champion.” That thread existed. It was upvoted. On early Season Three Zed: A champion we nerfed multiple times and was STILL #1 pick/ban at the World Championship last year. Just sayin’.
It’s also much easier to imitate than to innovate. A lot of players look to the Korean teams and say, “They’re the best, we’ll just follow in their footsteps.” Unless LCS teams are willing to step out and find their own powerful picks, you’re just only going to see the small set of champions that highly-regarded teams like Samsung Blue or SKT T1 K play. Last week we barely saw any Kog’Maw played in the LCS. This week, we have him played almost every single game. Because people realized, “Oh right, Kog’Maw’s really strong.” The game didn’t change in the LCS over the past seven days: LCS players’ perceptions did.
Thanks, David, that was a really great contribution.Â
Kog’maw is a great example of where a team must choose to play protect-the-kog’maw – but that might be impossible vs a team composed of the right set of divers/assassins/vi, etc.Â
These strategies exist – the people that are capable of practicing them? Less available until popular.Â
We want to enable these kinds of things – Yasuo Knockup comps are a new example of a specific synergy type. AoE Wombo Combo, etc. We don’t go out hunting for any specific comp usually, but instead try to ensure that theÂ potentialÂ for them to exist does.Â
… and by the way, for every strategy that survives to LCS play – there’s 10 times as many that still work just as well at lower levels of play.
Context: Summoner Locoangel is doing a series of Learn-the-League Youtube videos where a Diamond player assesses common low ELOÂ scenarios. You can check out their announcement here.
Awesome content! Love the concept of a diamond and bronze player talking. He’s like your Counselor Troy!
Best thing that will help people learn is to summarize and reinforce at the end. Run through a list of tips on screen as you’re doing your closing gameplay reel, put a list of lessons in the video description, etc. One thing we definitely learned in our testing is that just telling someone something once doesn’t make it stick. Using speech, action, and text can help people retain things. Ultimately though, doing it yourself works the best. You can also bring back lessons in the future to help people recall things they’ve learned in the past and reinforce again.
Nitpicky feedback, the color balance/contrast/etc. of the play capture changes. You should try to get that to be consistent. Not sure if it’s from different capture sources or a side effect of the overlays you add.
Welcome to the first deep-dive entry in our ongoing League of Legends design values! A few weeks ago we spoke about our core design pillars in League, and we promised additional entries that would go in-depth with each particular one.Up today weâ€™ve gotÂ Richard â€˜Nomeâ€™ Liu, an environment and clarity designer for League of Legends. In addition to talking at length about gameplay clarity, Nomeâ€™s also going to be talking about the decision-making that went into the development ofÂ jungle timers. So read on to hear Nomeâ€™s thoughts on clarity and why itâ€™s so important to League of Legends as a whole!
Â Chris â€˜Pwyffâ€™ Tom
Â This article is written by clarity and environment designer Richard “Nome” Liu
Can you spot exactly where you are in a teamfight?When you glance at the scoreboard, can you figure out whether you or your opponent has a higher minion score in less than three seconds?
On first use – without reading the tooltip – can you understand the full effects of an ability?
On a deeper level, how much information does a player need to make a meaningful choice, and how many more layers can be added before that choice turns into bookkeeping of obscure information?
Where information is presented is important. When Shyvana was updated, her melee attack effects were moved to their affected ability tooltips — since that’s where they’re most relevant!
These are the kind of challenges â€“ and more â€“ that theÂ gameplay clarityÂ team tackles on a daily basis, and they’re ones that we firmly believe can be improved in League of Legends. As mentioned in our design values dev blog, gameplay clarity is incredibly important for the evolution of League of Legends and our mission is to ensure that players are fighting their opponents,Â notÂ the game.
But what is gameplay clarity? Clarity is pervasive. It’s in visuals, gameplay, design, art, and everything in-between. In League of Legends, gameplay clarity relates to the availability of information as well as the intentional obfuscation of it. We can make clear gains â€“ like updating minion particles to be more accurate in their direction â€“ but these arenâ€™t what weâ€™re here to discuss.
So whatÂ areÂ we here for? Well, with the push ofÂ Jungle TimersÂ to the PBE, we felt this would be a good time to discuss gameplay clarity in spaces yet to be explored as well as how we’re aiming to improve your gameplay experience.
Boiling down what we talked about in our design values, League of Legends provides three basic paths to mastery: personal expertise, teamwork, and adaptability â€“ our focus will be on the first. Personal expertise is a complex soup of skills but we can generally agree that elements like mechanical mastery, situational awareness, and game knowledge are vital ingredients.
Most of these are universal to the League of Legends experience and are agnostic to the map, mode, or champion you play â€“ though a few of them can be overloaded based on your preferences. Regardless, weâ€™ve also declared that a few thingsÂ arenâ€™tÂ part of the experience, like hardcore multi-unit micromanagement, rote memorization of patterns, or bookkeeping.
The new jungle timers are nestled at the top of the screen. They won’t be presenting any new or hidden information. Rather, they present existing information in a visual display.
Jungle timers fall into that last case, and serve as an example of important information being presented in an impractical manner. Looking back, there was a lot of internal debate over whether this level of information should be exposed.
On one side, a case could be made that map-level objective awareness is a significant aspect of skill â€“ and to that, we wholeheartedly agree. We would not, for example, alert you when an opponent entered your immediate radius from fog, nor would we ever track enemy cooldowns for you. Your interactions with your opponents are sacred and we will always leave those interactions alone.
On the other side â€“ and here’s what finally changed our minds â€“ the jungle is a constant environment; unlike champions, monsters will always be where you expect them to be; unlike cooldowns, there is no variability in respawn rates. With timestamps available in the team chat window, timing of jungle monsters often came down to whoever remembered to type it out. We also donâ€™t want to beat around the bush here: the emergence of third party applications put fuel on the fire, but they only increased our confidence that such a feature was in line with our values.
Ultimately, the question we asked was whether bookkeeping of jungle timers (which, as I mentioned before, was often solved by doing quick math in the chat box) contributedÂ satisfactionÂ of the play experience and we realized it was just too much of a routine task to be of significant value.
But this dev blog isn’t all about jungle timers (although they’re the most contextually relevant), and I’d like to highlight other uses of clarity. We’re not always about displayingÂ allÂ information â€“ clarity is about intentionality: a game that makes every piece of knowledge available creates information paralysis, while a game that hides all information promotes mental archiving rather than rewarding moment-to-moment mastery. The job of design is to use informational clarity (or the lack thereof) to create interesting situations.
It’s extremely important for players to understand when they’re being targeted by a turret. At the same time, it’s important to leave space where players can be baited into taking turret shots as well.
To provide an example in which clarity is important in limited scope, we can look at turrets. Itâ€™s incredibly important to understand when youâ€™re targeted by a turret, as their attacks are especially impactful and feature a unique set of rules: they ignore a portion of your armor and deal increased damage with each successive hit. To this end, turrets utilize exaggerated ceremony: thereâ€™s a persistent targeting laser, a distinct sound alerts you when youâ€™re targeted, and it fires bright balls of energy. Now hereâ€™s something turretsÂ donâ€™tÂ feature: a persistent range indicator (outside of Co-Op vs AI and beginner games).
Certainly a range indicator would improve clarity around the turret â€“ no one denies this. A scenario where one player harasses another under the turret is rife for plays to be made, and this contributes heavily to our decision-making. When an indicator is present, the play is between the aggressor and the indicator rather than the aggressor and the defender. If we were to make turret range indicators permanent, then aggression would be boiled down to who can toe the line better, which ultimately decreases the potential for interesting plays to arise.
For my final point, weâ€™ve covered when information should be exposed and when it should be hidden. Now, I want to briefly touch on when information is available but inaccessible.
A good example here would be the visual update to Karthusâ€™ Lay Waste. The previous particle grossly misrepresented the abilityâ€™s area of effect, while the new particle is far more functionally accurate. In approaching a change like this, the argument could be made that inaccurate particles create gameplaythroughÂ deception, but this collides directly with clarity as a core value: theÂ gameÂ should never deceive players. The player should deceive other players!
It was easy to hide the old particle, but the resulting gameplay was deceptive. The new particle communicates the gameplay clearly.
On this point, creating gameplay through intentional miscommunication doesnâ€™t actually add depth or personal mastery. One Karthus may be strategically and tactically superior to the other, but if the better Karthus loses because he didnâ€™t know the skittle extendedÂ beyondÂ its indicated hitbox, thatâ€™s not a victory that can be chalked up to skill. The job of clarity is to refine knowledge such that both parties can make intelligent choices. If one player makes a fatal error (either due to a lack of knowledge or mechanical skill), they should lose due to their opponent’s superior skill, not the inconsistency of a game rule (that all particles accurately represent their hitboxes).
Weâ€™re passionate about pushing League of Legends to be more readable, understandable, and usable â€“ all so that we can put the focus back on personal mastery. On that note, while clarity is a design value we’ve been pursuing for some time, it’s also one where we have great opportunities to grow. Our hope is that as we continue to add more clarity to League of Legends, we’ll also be pushing the envelope of player skill.
Either way, we absolutely welcome your feedback on all of these points â€“ and call us out when we fall flat! If you have any questions, comments, or suggestions on how we can improve the game from a clarity standpoint, be sure to leave them in the comments.
[ Question ] If I don’t have vision on the enemy’s jungle camp will the timer go off?
RoboLions:Â You only get the timer if you were there for the kill, just like the minimap icon on live.
[ Follow-up Example ]Â So if I see it without any monsters, i.e. the camp died 2 minutes prior to me seeing the camp, does the timer start at 3 minutes, or does it not start at all?
Â RoboLions:Â You don’t get a timer in that case. You will only see that it is dead, until it is not dead, just like the minimap.
[ Follow-up ]Â What if I leave a ward at the enemy buff?
Â RoboLions:Â Good question: Since you saw the death, thanks to your ward, you’ll have the timer.
[ Clarity ]Â
Â RoboLions: You will only see that the buff is not alive. Since you missed the actual time of death you don’t get a respawn timer, it’ll show -:– for the timer instead. When the camp respawns it’ll show up as alive, just like the minimap on live. 🙂
Riot opposed Curse Voice because it didn’t give the timers to everyone
Phreak:Â Yep, that’s the major distinction.
We do not want third-party mods directly affecting in individual player experience. We don’t want League to be a game where you say to your friend, “Hey come try out this game… But if you actually want to win, make sure you download these five additional programs.”
[ Opinion ] Jungle Timers are taking away from game knowledge players need to develop
Phreak:Â You still have to keep track of them yourself. But typing “12:20 tb” and pressing Z to check up on it is really no different from pressing Tab and looking at the top of the screen. In fact, inferring your opponents’ timers based on their buffs’ remaining duration even though you didn’t see them is still a skill you’re going to have to retain.
If you have any questions, feel free to ask me atÂ @NoL_ChefoÂ or e-mail me at email@example.com.
[ Question ] Why do some tanky Champions not gain Magic Resist-per-level? (example, Shen and Maokai)
Â SmashGizmo:Â Currently, there are 7 Melee characters in our game without MR/level: Kassadin, Kayle, Maokai, Poppy, Shen, Singed, Yasuo.
I can tell you the general thought process behind why we consciously have omitted MR/level on Kassadin and Yasuo, and I can wager some guesses that I’m nearly sure are right for why they were left out on all the others as well.
Kassadin’s passive provides passive defense versus Magic damage. While it’s not terribly interesting, it is still more interesting than a base stat, so basically any power budget we could spend on making this guy better vs. Magic Damage is better spent on the passive than on base stats.
Yasuo’s passive is mostly meant as an anti-burst mechanic to prevent him from getting gibbed by mages. Again, the passive’s purpose was already aimed at solving the character’s needs in terms of mitigating the damage mages do, so any power we could’ve given him on this axis is once again more interesting being spent on his passive than on base stats.
I’m guessing Maokai was not originally given MR/level because his ult is such a potentially strong mitigation tool vs. Mage AoE. He was also made in an older time where a larger % of the tanks didn’t have MRes/level (most fighter tanks weren’t around and of the original tanks, many of them had no MRes/level at the time).
Kayle almost certainly doesn’t have it because she is functionally ranged most of the time.
Poppy probably doesn’t have it once again because of the passive’s ability to mitigate burst damage.
Singed likely doesn’t have it because of the insane amount he gets from his ultimate, so that mages can actually feel effective vs. him when his long duration ultimate isn’t active.
Shen likely doesn’t have it because of the precedence set by early tanks and also because his W is a strong anti-burst mitigation tool.
Now I know this all sounds kinda silly because you can point out a lot of similar abilities on other characters who do have MR/level and the whole thing starts to just sound arbitrary. And there is some truth in that; the decision isn’t totally arbitrary since all of these character have other tools in place to service their defensive needs, but they just as easy could have MRes/level and be balanced around that as not.
When looking at these guys and working on buffing/nerfing them though, it feels like a cheap and easy way to give them a power buff by just tacking MRes/level, but it’s not always the right answer. Take the Maokai changes I’ve been working on this patch. It would be very easy to just inject power into the character by adding MR/level, but at the end of the day what this change says is that the character is currently working in a healthy and satisfying way but just needs some raw power against mages to succeed. And in some cases, that might be spot on, but on Maokai that just didn’t seem like the right approach. Theoretically, there’s only so much you can buff a character before they become imbalanced, so it’s most interesting and exciting when you can spend your buff budget on impactful actions that the player is making rather than increasing their stat line.
So all in all, I will agree with the sentiment here that our MRes base stat system feels kinda arbitrary, but when working on a character by character basis, we frequently forego just adding the MRes/level to them so that we can try to give that same amount of power to them in a more satisfying and/or interesting way. Hope that helps understand it.
Â Phreak:Â To be honest, it’s pretty inconsistent.
There are two main reasons I’ve seen:
This champion is a tank. They will buy durability itemization anyway, and they aren’t hurting for gold. This applies to champions like Shen pretty well. Of course there are a million who still do, but we generally seem to want “Fighters” to have some innate tankiness.
Sometimes we give champions really weak base stats to make their abilities or item buys more powerful, and just balance around ratios, etc. Nautilus falls under this category (stupidly slow, bad base stats, P/Q/W/R are crazy)
Following the recent talk of Caitlyn’s VU, players are asking ifÂ her original looks will be preserved in a traditional skin (like Karma, for example).
[ Question ] When the VU does come will it be different enough to warrant doing a traditional skin?
Â IronStylus:Â There are differing views on this.Â
Initially I thought we might be able to just replace her base and be done with it, then I ran an experiment.
I worked on a concept for her for fun last year, just for the hell of it. It stemmed from a paint-over I did over her in-game model quite a while ago for some style guide exploration. I messed around with removing the dress and giving her pants actually. It was sorta cool. I left the upper part of her body in tact to an extent, mainly just updating the style of the clothing. So she sort of had a bullet-proof corset/bustier thing as well as exposed shoulders with long gloves and also updated the hat. Fine enough, I guess.Â
Later I tried doing a front-on concept with this paint over in mind. I did the same design, leaving the shoulders and upper chest exposed. I gave her sort of a half-coat that had short sleeves. Kept the pants, but let the coat replace the silhouette for skirt. It seemed to work fairly well.
Only problem was the exposed skin. The more I tried to update her fashion, add functionality, and tell the story of her being a sheriff, the more the exposed skin just didn’t make sense. Honestly it just looked awkward, like I was exposing skin for exposing skin’s sake.Â
I had made a conscious decision to a) make her feel like the sheriff of a major faction, b) make her stylistically fit in with Vi, Jayce and Jinx, and c) give functionality to her gun, hat, clothing, etc to reinforce those themes, while also trying to make her feel distinctly Caitlyn.
So, I started filling in the holes. I threw out everything in my head that I knew of Caitlyn in terms of what she was and looked at things from the perspective of designing a new character. Given all that above info, what would I design? I could hit those notes of feeling representative of Piltover. I could match her with existing characters. I could make her gear work. Even if someone gave me the ambiguous instruction of “make her feel distinct”, there were things I could do. Hell, the hat, gun and fashionable silhouette are the most distinct reads she has, so leveraging those pretty much sums up the path I should take.
So I executed on that. I designed what I felt a one-sheet on her should describe. Sheriff, part of a specific cast of characters, iconic of a specific city-state.Â
I got a lot of positive feedback on it. That’s not to say it was, or will be the final word, but people who did approach me said that it achieved the things they wanted Caitlyn to be without sacrificing what made her, her. Now by no means does that say the job of a potential VU concept for her is done. A few other people had differing notes of feedback, which I totally understood, and wanted to take a crack at addressing in any further exploration.Â
The concept did change my mind though considering a traditional skin. I didn’t feel as though I could completely replicate everything about Caitlyn. I updated her, I made her more cohesive, but I didn’t 1-for-1 things. That’s the inherent rub of the job. By the results of exploring the concept, I felt as though I couldn’t necessarily have my cake and eat it too (no pun intended). I couldn’t completely capture the feeling of the incongruous charm despite getting a warm reception by other artists who took a look at it. But that’s the thing. Caitlyn isn’t consistent with what the other cast members have set up at the moment, and if our goal is to introduce some consistency, then I probably couldn’t keep a lot of those contrasts. I could objectively make something cool, but it might not address what charm may or may not be lost in the eyes of enthusiasts.Â
So there’s the cost-benefit. Remove some of the incongruity, loose some of the charm. That has to be analysed to see if it’s worth it. My feeling is that what I did was a big enough of a departure to warrant a traditional skin. However, some people disagreed. They felt the concept I did was a fine replacement. I currently don’t feel that way.Â
So, given my experience, I would ere on the side of including a traditional skin, but I am in no way sure that if she ever does get a VU that we’d make one. Right now she’s on the radar but nothing is planned. Maybe she’ll get overhauled, maybe not. We’ll see. My personal feeling is that I’d like to see a traditional skin.Â
But maybe that’s just me trying to have my cake-trap and eat it too.
[ Question ] Is Xelnath still working on Yorick’s rework?
Â Xelnath:Â I am not on reworks at the moment. After discussion, Yorick got moved down the list, relative to Sion and another bloke who will get confirmed sometime after Sion.
[ Question ] What determines if a Champion is on the “high priority” rework list?
Â Â Xelnath:Â I’m afraid I don’t have access to the list, but in general:
* How badly is the design impacting players * How appealing could this character be if rebuilt well * How many months of development will need to be invested in new art
[ Question ] Can we have a system where players select their intended hero/role during the draft?Â
Â Â Xelnath:Â This isn’t a bad idea. I believe Lyte wants to take a deeper look at the ranked/draft overall though, so I can’t speak to his exact desires.
The conversation regarding the recent chat restriction wave continues!
RelevantÂ Red Post Collections
Q: Without numbers backing up your findings, how can we believe player behavior is an actual study?
Â Lyte:Â You know, it’s a bit unfair to call out researchers at Riot in this fashion. Most players haven’t worked with data of this scale, nor the problems that come up when dealing with online player behavior; in fact, most scientists haven’t worked in this space before either.
For example, you talk about sample sizes, p-values and hypotheses. You really think revealing those values are the problem and if we did, we’d convince players that we conduct strong, robust science here? Do you understand why calculating p-values might not be the best approach when your sample sizes are over 1 trillion? You get a “significant” effect with almost every pair-wise comparison. That’s meaningless. So how do you analyze an experiment with millions of interactions? What kinds of multiple-comparison techniques are appropriate? Do we need to develop new ones because this scale of data has never been analyzed before? Are effect sizes of 1% meaningful when you have 1 billion samples of data? Maybe, maybe not. If you knew that 1% of games were worse because of a feature or experiment, and look at the millions of games played every hour… that’s a pretty big practical impact isn’t it? These are tough questions, and there are rarely easy or straight-forward answers. The researchers at Riot are some of the best in their respective fields whether it’s neuroscience, aeronautics, bioinformatics or economics. They’ve published papers in Nature and the top journals in their fields. They’ve worked with former Nobel Prize laureates and their proteges. We still spend some time reaching out to top institutions like Harvard, MIT, Stanford, York, USC and more to collaborate on studies, and review papers for journals.
We ask researchers at Riot to have even higher standards than academia. Why?Â Because we value players and their experiences.Â In academics, some scientists are OK with 95% confidence intervals or 99% confidence intervals–do you laugh at their suggestion that they are 99% confident about a result? Yet here, whether we choose 95% or 99% confidence intervals is a big deal. One mistake here could impact a player forever if they lose Ranked Rewards or lose their accounts and we treat that responsibility extremely seriously. There was one time where an analysis could have provided a negative experience for 6 players. Just 6. However, 6 is 6 too much and we went back into the analysis to clean it up. Do we make mistakes? Of course. Mistakes are always going to happen.Â But, to give researchers at Riot **** for not being “scientists” and not strongly adhering to scientific standards is bull****.
Is the problem really the science? Or, is it that some players are angry they got a punishment, and maybe deserved it? A negative player can disagree with what we believe is “OK” in League of Legends, but it’s never been just Riot’s opinion of what’s OK or not OK–it’s been the community’s decision and we back the community 100%. A negative player can disagree with the community’s subjective perspective on what’s OK or not OK, but that doesn’t make the science bad. If the problem is actually the science, let’s talk about it.
Q: Isn’t the issue here that players don’t understand why they’re being Chat restricted?
Â Â Lyte:Â Completely agree that players currently are not getting the “Reform Card” equivalent to see what exactly they said to earn a restrictive chat game; however, this is because we’re currently running temporary experiments versus launching a permanent feature.
In the old days, we used game bans often. We had data before Reform Cards, after Reform Cards, before Justice Reviews, after Justice Reviews, etc. However, we didn’t really have as much data about restricted chat bans alone. How effective are restrictive chat bans without a reform card of sorts? How effective are they for handling issues that may not be related to communication? These are the types of questions that (hopefully!) are answered in these experiments so we know what features to incorporate into the new Tribunal.
Q: Why aren’t you publishing your team’s studies as proof the numbers are accurate?
Â Â Lyte:Â Do players want us to focus on publishing papers, or making new features? If the resource of time wasn’t a concern, then of course we’d just do everything. To add to this, we could publish papers and we’d still have to deal with skeptics–scientists deal with that every single day.
We’ve already revealed more data and methodology than most studios–check out GDC talks and talks at MIT, Harvard, York, USC, etc. Players have long been able to download and run their own analyses on Tribunal data too (when it was up)–not surprisingly, they often had the same results we talked about regarding its accuracy.
Q: Is it true some players deserving punishment don’t currently have Tribunal cases?
Â Â Lyte:Â I could probably write entire blogs about this topic, and maybe we’ll touch on some in the future. Basically, there were multiple factors related to what you were seeing:
1) The Tribunal was conservative in many cases, so people who may have deserved punishment earlier were often playing games far longer than they should until Tribunal gathered more evidence.
2) The Tribunal didn’t benefit from a lot of the research we developed while we were building Team Builder. One consequence is that a Tribunal case takes a lot longer to ‘close’ then it should. For example, let’s say a Tribunal case typically requires 1000 votes. We now have a lot of data that we can look at patterns of votes to determine when a case should be closed early with really high accuracy, so we could close cases in as little as 20 votes and expedite the penalty (or reward, in the future).
3) The Tribunal didn’t upgrade its tech overtime and wasn’t very scale-able. This is why players often saw the system go up and down, trying to build cases and close cases as fast as it could but the scale League operates at is just unprecedented.
Q: Why was I banned after being Chat Restricted?
Â WookieeCookie:Â On Friday we decided to review the data we collected after placing chat restrictions on accounts with high levels of recorded toxicity. We were pretty pleased with the results, a large majority of players actually showed signs of less harassment and toxic behavior. Unfortunately a small % of accounts actually increased in recorded levels of poor behavior. For these players we decided to place a 3 Day Suspension on their account.
As a lot of you are probably aware, the Tribunal is currently in extended recess while the Player Behavior and Justice dev team works on some upgraded features for it. During this time we’re not going to sit idle while some players try to exploit others in game. Even without the Tribunal we have numerous tools at our disposal to find and take action on high offenders.
In this particular case, we sent e-mails to those affected. I am bee bee sea you might want to check that the e-mail on your account is up to date, as this is the primary way you’ll receive messages on the status of your account from us.
To help you out here, I decided to take another look at your account. In your case, during the period of chat restrictions your account continued to receive reports in over 40% of the games you played.
During your chat restricted period you had a habit of passively aggresively treating your team mates poorly. Either by feeding the enemy, rambo’ing on your own, or just waiting around not contributing until your team surrendered. Even with chat restrictions you did manage to say quite a few terrible things that I wouldn’t repeat here. But I’m pretty sure that Lee Sin jungle in one of your games didn’t appreciate being called that terrible racial slur just because he wasn’t performing well.
Everyone has bad games, it’s how we deal with them that we excel and grow as players at League of Legends. Calling someone names doesn’t help them get better and it certainly doesn’t help you win.
Q: Is the system completely automated now?
Â Â WookieeCookie:Â The system is not automated at all currently. This wave of bans, and the wave of chat restrictions prior have been the result of close collaboration between a number of teams including Player Behavior and Justice, Business Intelligence, Player Support, and our regional offices. Human interaction has been a core component of each step the entire way through.
Conclusory findings for Chat Restricted players
Â Â WookieeCookie:Â The observed behavior of those which were banned was that they used what little chat they had in game to harass and berate others. In other cases they decided to feed or play against their own team in order to “prove a point”.
But what I find most interesting is that of the players we chat restricted last week (and there were a lot!)we only had to place manual suspensions on less than .05% of the players. By and large, the vast majority of players had no problem adjusting their behavior in game with limited chat.
Q: Is Banner of Command viable?
Â Riot Peaches:Â Banner of Command is extremely powerful for supports, imo. I like to use it to promote top or bottom and then tell the entire team to group in the opposite lane. It is almost guaranteed to force a lane to push to tower, which will probably cause a 4v5 or result in a free objective. You also get free gold for every enemy minion slain by the promoted minion. The stats are awesome on caster supports, especially on Zyra since it buffs her plants, and it’s cheap enough to build after core (which I consider Frost Queens (2200), Sightstone(800), Tabi(1000), and Crucible(1600) — so BoC is done at 8k give or take consumable cost, which is about 25 mins in on an average game). However, if I’m trying to rush it I’ll convert my Codex into BoC before finishing Frost Queen’s which gives me Banner 1335 gold earlier.Â
I build it if bot has a huge early lead and I want to prevent their other laners from grouping to shut us down in teamfights, or if we are losing badly and desperately need some lane presence. If it’s an evenish game I’d probably just build more defense (locket/randuins).Â
I don’t see it anywhere in your recent history so I suggest building it next time you’re a caster support. Don’t knock it til you try it!
Mystery Gifting re-enabled on EUW
Â Â Riot tmx:Â We have verified that the migration was completed and Mystery Gifting was re-enabled. Have fun.
Q: Why is the jungle so hard to balance properly?
Â Â Phreak:Â The goal has always been to have a mix. In the first few seasons, it was basically impossible to carry from the jungle because there wasn’t any gold in it. We upped the gold, a little too much, and the junglers who carried became massively overpowered, so we have to tune it back down. We’re happy that guys like Wukong and Kha’Zix can jungle now, but we want Nautilus to be able to be picked, too.
As an example, saying, “Yeah, you know we’d really like Rumble to get played” then giving him 5,000 damage on Flamespitter, nerfing it next patch, and players going, “WTF I thought you wanted to buff Rumble, Riot!” And the answer is yes we do, but we don’t want it broken in the other direction.
Follow-up Q: Why wasn’t the jungle fixed during testing andÂ instead has to seeÂ nerfs on live servers?
Â Â Phreak:Â Quite simply, it’s because this game is complex.
We do everything we can in internal testing, but a few dozen bros compared to millions of players playing millions of games is just massively different.
Why didn’t people realize Twitch was really good all along? Why did it take four months for mid lane Lulu to catch on? Why did people think Zed was underpowered on release?
People don’t figure stuff out right away. Us included.
Q: Will Nidalee’s Javelin toss be completely nerfed?
Â Â RiotRepertoir:Â It will probably just see straight up nerfs. It’s important to the spell’s identity that the spell varies quite meaningfully in damage from point blank to max range, so the more that is true, the better players will feel about those long range snipes. The problem with increasing the base damage on Javelin Toss is that it deals immense damage at level 9 when maxed first.
Some artists are just too incredible to skip. I’d like to revive the fan art showcases in news posts and this is an awesome opportunity forÂ it.
Like the Series? Check out some of the previous showcases:
[Nofacekill3r]Â How is this a damage increase when the AoE on her ult was nerfed?
Â Phreak:Â Sure. Yes, her AoE damage of her R went down. That’s just straight up true. However, I’m arguing that Ahri rarely if ever gets full value of her extra R hits. An extremely high number of times, they simply hit nothing (she’s chasing a single target) or minions (she’s chasing a single target in lane). This is extremely common.
Additionally, her total damage on W actually goes up. The base damage on the ability has stayed the same, yet still gets the Charm benefit. So if you only land one tick of W, you get the amplified version, while the other two full-power versions hit something else. On top of that, I know we were toying with having Charm forcibly suck up all the W charges, even if they would have been out of range. This helps actually guarantee single target damage increases (contingent on landing charm).
[quezala]Â Doesn’t Akali share the same issues you’re trying to resolve with Ahri?
Â Phreak:Â And we aren’t particularly pleased with Akali either. If you are within 700 range and she has enough stats, you just die.
[Criomhthann]Â Follow-up:Â Does that mean you’ll be nerfing Akali?
Â Phreak:Â I don’t know exactly.
But just think back to her past. When she was a dominant pick, she was very quick to get nerfed. Even Gunblade is targeted. I don’t know the balance state of Akali right now, but I know we’ve been trying for a while to add some extra gameplay to that champion. Our tweaks to Twilight Shroud, for example.
Following the recent changes to Morgana’s W on the PBE, Rioters hop on the forums to discuss how these have affected her playstyle.
Â Â Morgana
Tormented Soil ( W ) Â
Enemies on the cursed ground take magic damage equal to 20/32.5/45/57.5/70 (+0.2) plus 3/3/3/3/3% of their missing Health (capped at 80/80/80/80/80 versus minions and monsters) every second
Damage lowered from 25/40/55/70/85 to 20/32.5/45/57.5/70
No longer grants MR reduction
Now does 3% missing HP every second.
Are you trying to nerf Morgana?
Â Phreak:Â I know the goal with Morgana changes are not nerf. They are a shift in abilities.
Auto-farming basically for free (get two Doran’s Rings or something) is really non-interactive and just not great gameplay. Our goal is to give her extra kill potential (get hit with a Q, get dunked by missing health W) and late-game scaling (health scales with the game, so does W).
If the changes are not enough to compensate for the loss in farm power, then that’s something we’re happy to change.
But to your point, Lux’s E does much less damage than Tormented Soil. Tormented Soil deals some ridic damage.
Edit: And to be perfectly clear, to my knowledge Morgana is the only champion who can kill the back minion line with one ability at champion level 5. Max Force Pulse has a base damage of 280. Rake deals 260. Tormented Soil deals 425. At rank 3 it deals 275 wither a higher AP ratio than Force Pulse. Bit of a difference thereÂ
Â Morgageddon:Â pokes his head in.
The issue with just comparing full damage is context though. How often will you get a W on any champion in lane to do the full duration of damage? 2-3 ticks is about all you can get usually, coupled on top of a snare. Most all other mages and ad assassins mid can do that damage instantly with a single spell. In terms of risk, they’re far safer to do damage. Morg has to rely on that mechanic in order to somewhat safely farm.
Morg walks into auto range to farm, Talon can rake then to farm and apply damage. If Morg waits to drop her W to counter, Talon might take 1-2 ticks and walk out, or even blink on top. Kass can just use his targeted silence and walk out. The point isn’t that her damage at full time is high. It’s that it needs to be in order to farm, because of the fact it’s damage over time. If it was a blunt 425 instantly, that’d be brokenly OP. But it’s a slow burn, which is why she suffered from mid/late game farming issues and why the change seemed to be good, but appears to be numerically weak for the purpose of remaining relevant to farm both early and late game.
Feedback on the changes
Â Morgageddon:Â Morgageddon pops in.
I’ve done a few tests on the PBE.
Standard runes for consistency:
Greater Mark of Magic Penetration x9 (7.8 Magic Pen) Greater Seal of Scaling Mana Regeneration x9 (10.53 Mana Regen @ level 18) Greater Glyph of Scaling Cooldown Reduction x9 (10.00% CDR @ level 18) Greater Quintessence of Scaling Mana Regeneration x3 (12.96 Mana Regen @ level 18)
Totals are 7.8 Magic Pen, 24/5 Mana Regen @ 18 and 10% CDR @ 18
Masteries are standard 21-0-9 for AP casters.
Starting items are boots and 4 pots. As old Morgana, at level 5, I can just clear out the caster minions with a rank 3 W, which if dropped properly, leaves the melee minions at roughly 1 auto each.
On New Morgana, rank 3 W doesn’t even come close to the same. It takes 2 autos, or one timed properly, in order to farm the caster minions. The fourth level in W allowed her to grab caster minions.
On old Morgana, at rank 4 W (which is usually 7 and where I then divert points into Q), I easily farm the caster minions, and with waiting a moment for the melee to take damage before I cast W, I also get all the melee minions.
On New Morgana, I can’t even get melee minions with rank 4, and 5 is barely.
When fighting enemy mages in mid who had no MR, my W felt more like a double damage type scenario. I could drop a W on them, and watch as the base damage did 32, then see the added damage start at 30 and move up slowly to match. This is most likely due to the base scaling, AP ratios and 3% missing hp. However, my WQ combos felt…lackluster.
I used to drop a W just before my Q hit, for the magic shred and to make the Q hit just a little harder. Now, it doesn’t really feel like I’m hitting with any noticeable gain. Granted, late game troll pools (dropping a W on someone running away with ~100 hp) meant instant death, as it used to, but I actually had less gold per game on average than before.
The reason for that is I had to rely on Morgana’s slow AA animation and horrendous range in order to farm. Walk into range to farm minions I used to be able to farm safely from range, get poked by targetable or far less mana intensive spells. Decide not to go into AA range, and I lose farm. Not a very good feeling, to have the one aspect of Morgana you expect to fall through.
Without other changes to her spells/champion, I feel that while this may help her late game damage output (Didn’t really notice any particular power spikes yet), I feel that this is more harmful than helpful due to the increased difficulty for farming.
TL:DR – These changes make it much more difficult for Morgana to farm as the % bonus damage vs minions is minimal and so she has to rely on short-range auto attacks to get the gold.
[Nuclear Dragon]Â What are your plans for Morgana?
Â ricklessabandon:Â Regarding rework-level changes to one or more abilities: there are a lot of cool/fun things we could do with her kit, and in all honesty we probably should do a deep dive at some point to see what that would look like, but it’s hard to me to comment offhand since i’m super biased when it comes to morganaâ€”i started playing her like, 3 years ago and played her hundreds of times getting to level 30 and beyondâ€”so unless i spend a lot of time thinking about it i’ll likely be overly conservative. >_<
Â Update on Morgana
Â Â ricklessabandon:Â Real quick:
I increased the base damage on tormented soil to 23/36/49/62/75 (which is still less than live)
I already know the above definitely isn’t the last iteration, but wanted to nudge these closer while i finish doing a bunch of math/implementation
Speaking of math, i have a spreadsheet i want to share somehow (probably google docs or something?) that will help you guys know numbers versus champions ahead of time
The goal of these changes is to be a net buff for morgana (specifics later), so they won’t leave the PBE until i’m confident of them being such
Thanks again to everyone that ran her in games to get feedback for meâ€”it makes doing this much easier â™¥
So yeah. Going to go nap for a couple of hours, then i’ll swing by here again to do a proper ‘goals’ post. Also, we’ve got someone looking into the masteries bug, so hopefully that’ll be addressed in the next PBE update (which might be today?), but i have no idea since it’s not related to the stuff I’ve been working on.
Â The Bravo Ray:Â Let’s talk about the key components of the BC line visuals; it’s Tech level. When we say “Tech Level,” we mean how technologically advanced the design theme.
Tech Level guild line
For all intents and purposes, the Battle Cast is a robot themed skin line. While being robotic in nature, this does not mean it needs to present a futuristic feel. That is why you can see complex mechanical parts underneath the thick plating(wires, actuators, bolts, and exhaust).
This design angle helps the in game visuals reduce the tech level from a futurist feel and brings it into the steam punk, or apocalyptic realm. Another thing to note on the tech level, is the source of the BC power operation or engine. For Urgot, we created a combustion style engine as his power source. Two large exhaust pipes exit out his back; shaking, and emitting smoke. Keeping true to the theme of the crude power delivery. There is nothing complex or refined, just a huge motor to do the job. Remember “Function over Form”.
Some guidelines do not have to be carried over to all the BC when it comes to the tech level. Cho’Gath Prime, is an example.
For Cho, we wanted to elude that he was the prime example of Viktor’s designs. He runs a furnace style power system, like a coal powered locomotive. The more he consumes, the hotter and larger he gets. So, in his full stacked form, his plates would fan out to let the piping, hot gas escape.
These are some of the ways we take a robotic theme and keep the tech level down.
The biggest defining thing about the line, is the armor plating. It is very thick, hard, and rough around the edges. Matte painted, dented, worn, and distressed. This helps keep it from looking like a futuristic robot; which would be slick, stream lined, and polished. BC plates are slightly curved or bent to cover sensitive systems components. Usually, the armor plating is designed to be forward facing to block incoming damage. It needed to appear heavy and awkward, like a tank would. This is why some of the BC seem bigger than their bases(but we try to make sure they fit their hit boxes).
Feel free to continue to post and ask questions. We really love a lot of the creative ideas posted so far.
System administrators over at EU: West address the community’s concerns over the ridiculously long login queues.
Â Riot Terablo:Â Hello Summoners,
We’re just raising a new daily thread for today. Once again we have our strike team assembled and we have been watching things closely and are ready to strike at any minute should we see chat issues again.
Right now while we are at our limit again we are working on raising this safely in order to ensure queue times are as low as possible. But we do not want to risk the stability of the service.
The actual average login queue wait time right now is 8 minutes. The numbers displayed in the client are inaccurate if we are at our limit. You might even be at position one for a few minutes before being let in.
Why is there a queue to log in?
Â Riot Terablo:Â The platform is at its limit so there is a short wait period before you can login. Its less than 10 minutes at this moment. The estimated time displayed can be inaccurate at this time. Please hang in there and wait.
[Jay of Fail]Â Will I be forced to wait this long if I disconnect while in-game?
Â Riot Terablo:Â No. If you are in an active game and reconnect you will get priority. You still have to wait for a short period of time while you are at position 1 until a space free’s up. I would expect this to be less 1-3 minutes tops.
Â Riot Terablo:Â There has been no chat cluster failure today or related incidents with matchmaking.
The service has been online all day.
The platform was at its player limit for a decent amount of time. The limit was increased several times to allow for more players and we have remained stable. Unfortunately because it was at capacity there was a wait time you will have experienced logging in. Which sucks.
The average wait time right now is < 5 minutes, estimation displayed in the client is still inaccurate.
Solution to “Reconnecting to Chat” issue
Â Riot Terablo:Â If you right now have a chat issue please see this:
Hey Summoners,We see a few of you guys are reporting chat is stuck with ‘connecting to chat servers’ for seemingly long durations. From what we can tell, the chat systems appear to be running properly. Please submit your air client logs here so we can further investigate the issue. Air client logs can be pulled from the following directory:C:\Riot Games\League of Legends\RADS\projects\lol_air_client\releases\[VERSION NUMBER]\deploy\logs\
How to judge if your game will run stable
Windows: Open your command prompt and insert “pingÂ www.google.comÂ -t”.
Mac : Open your Terminal and insert “ping www.google.com”.
If the result there is stable, you can expect (unless firewall/antivirus/Riotproblems) a stable ping during your game.
Â Riot Eglorian:Â I actually do exactly this before playing, it’s just a good measure of how your own connection is doing.
It’s quick and easy.
[Xyltin]Â Can we get the IPs and Network Names of EUW servers for pinging?
Â RiotSundiata:Â You can find a list of addresses for the game serversÂ here. The list is a little dated ( from 2011 ) but the ranges for the EU shards are still accurate.
[Xyltin]Â Why can’t we track latency from local servers?
Â RiotSundiata:Â You can see ping in the in-game client by typing Ctrl-F.
I tend to favor MTR over using ping and traceroute individually. Keep in mind however that certain network segments may still block icmp type 30, which is necessary for traceroute to operate.
As for using Google as a touchstone for gauging general internet connectivity and performance, you might also consider using one of the root nameservers. You’ll want to pick one that uses anycast, as this will direct you somewhere that is geographically close, and far enough away from you to be a good measurement. You can find a list of the root nameserversÂ here.
Does Morello only take NA players into consideration when balancing the game?
Â RiotSundiata:Â FYI, we have a pretty massive data collection and analysis operation here. I assure you, NA is not the only region considered.
Does W still reset Sivir’s AA timer?
Â Â Statikk:Â Yes, activating W still resets her basic attack.
Buffs to Sivir
Â Â Statikk:Â Another update after testing some more iterations, here are the changes:
– Base Attack Speed back to 0.658 from 0.625 (this is back to her Live values)
– Made her basic attack more responsive
– Attack Speed per level increased to 1.6% from 1%
– Ricochet cooldown reduced to 9/8/7/6/5 (going to keep inching this down until it feels appropriately powerful to her kit)
This is in addition to the last changes (Ricochet bounce damage scaling per rank and her ult duration going back to Live values).
Not sure if all the changes will make it into the next PBE build, but hopefully you guys get a chance to test it out.
Will there be any new CDR items for AD carries?
Â Statikk:Â I wish there were more AD + CDR items in the game. I’ve talked a bunch with Xypherous about the current lack of AD + CDR itemization. Unfortunately, it’s not something we can prioritize over our current goals as it is actually a decent-sized project. Injecting new items can cause huge side effects and we’re already working on a ton of stuff that you guys haven’t gotten a chance to see yet. Hopefully, you guys will get to hear about it soon.
Still that one passive your duo buddy says is good when he/she picks Heimer support.
H-28G Evolution Turret ( Q )
Science: They’re definitely a lot tougher this time around, but they don’t have the special upgrades-per-level anymore. At level 1 Heimerdinger can only store one turret in reserve, but he easily can drop the maximum (3) before minions have spawned. These new turrets hit slower and deal less damage, but to compensate, they occasionally fire lasers automatically which can hit both enemy creep and Champions. They do so once a gauge below their health bar is filled. It takes 12 seconds for a turret to build up to a laser shot, but the first one can be fired as early as 2-3 seconds after the turret’s been placed. The activation range of the laser is around 650-675 (the laser itself is much bigger) and is displayed via an AoE circle around Heimerdinger’s turrets. If Heimerdinger isn’t within 1200 range of his turrets for 8 seconds, they will shut down.
Gameplay: The added laser beams allow Heimer to both bully melee Champions out of lane and discourage assassins from jumping on him. Even though the additional attack is a skillshot of sorts, it’s really hard to dodge by just walking to the side and it actually travels way further than its shown range. Aside from that the turrets are very much similar – less sustained damage but more resists, they can still easily push most Champions to their tower… and they can still get eaten/thrown/smited. One neat feature is a sound that plays whenever turrets hit a Champion off-screen – this can be heard only by whoever’s playing Heimer and it greatly encourages the use of turrets as wards. An awesome map-awareness feature all-around – place one near Dragon’s cave to warn your teammates of any grouping there. Max this ability if you want to just farm up and push, old-school Heimer style.
Hextech Micro-Rockets (W)
Science: A unique skillshot – Heimer’s rockets now cluster at the location of your cursor and spread out afterwards. Like most multi-hit abilities, consecutive hits on the same enemy deal less damage (20% on Champions, 60% on minions). The rockets outrange most mids, but they cost a lot of mana.
Gameplay: The projectiles become slower the longer they travel – Heimer players will need to get a feeling for how much they have to lead their targets based on distance. The rockets don’t actually deal AoE damage, so you should place your cursor in front of creeps when farming to fan them out. Heimer’s new W is similar to Nidalee’s spear in that it gets blocked by the first target hit – pressure the enemy with your turrets to force him to leave the safety of his minion wall before harassing with rockets (don’t overextend to aim). During laning this is a poke-trade tool – max this first if you’re against someone who’s gonna jump at you often and leave it second if your opponent is passive.
When dealing with tower-huggers, spread the ability a bit towards the end so there’s less chance it can be dodged. During teamfights it’s best to consider this a single-target nuke- the weird skillshot makes it difficult to aim at several enemies. Overall this is a really cool ability to use and it deals some impressive damage – hitting all 5 rockets is near-equal to Malzahar’s E.
CH-1 Electron Storm Grenade ( E )
Science: Instead of blinding, the grenade now slows targets hit. Enemies in the center are again stunned. The projectile is significantly faster but deals less damage than its old iteration. Also, it no longer flies in a straight line – it’s instead lobbed in the air (you know, like an actual grenade).
Gameplay: You can now hit enemies who aren’t DC-ed with a grenade! It really is Heimer’s most considerable change as it makes the ability so much less situational – it’s a great initiator to a gank, a viable poking tool in lane and a reactive escape mechanism. The damage is less, however, meaning you won’t be nuking with the grenade as much as you’ll be using it for its slow/stun. Take one point in the ability for the control it provides.
UPGRADE!!! ( R )
Science: The next ability is Empowered and free-to-cast. This doesn’t reset Heimerdinger’s existing cooldowns. UPGRADE!!! is only considered used when an Empowered ability is actually fired – it will otherwise be canceled after 3 seconds or if the ability is reactivated before that.
Gameplay: Heimer’s new ult carries a sort of Karma-esque vibe, with a lot of decision making and game-changing abilities, but less of that passive power the old ult’s CDR provided.
H-28Q Apex Turret (R+Q)
Places a giant freaking turret on the ground. This one doesn’t cut into Heimer’s existing turret cap, charges its laser two times faster, hits in an AoE, slows enemies, deals more damage with both its auto attacks and automated beam and pays your bills.
Hextech Rocket Swarm (R+W)
Fires 4 waves of rockets, each with its own (increased) damage cap. They’re shot almost immediately, but they all follow the first one’s skillshot path. Late game (~600 AP) this ability can deal more damage than Syndra’s ult if she had 7 spheres up.
CH-3X Lightning Grenade (R+E)
Lobs a grenade that, after landing, bounces 3 more times, dealing damage and slowing each time. The slow %, area of effect and base damage are all increased. Enemies can only be affected by the slow/stun of the ability once. The bounce is uncontrollable – the grenade will always bounce in the direction it was thrown.
Why this new Heimer is a step forward
As the video suggests, the new kit allows Heimerdinger players a lot more decision-making during games -Â should I use my turrets to scout, place them in the back so I can farm at peace or perhaps pressure the enemy laner with lasers so he can expose himself to rocket hits? This kind of organic strategy translates into teamfights – should I use my ult to make a bigger turret for higher DPS, fire a Rocket Swarm to quickly nuke down an enemy or lob an upgraded grenade into the fray to help with CC?
With the remake of his grenade, we can finally see Heimer’s E being used consistently and successfully. No longer is the Turret Master forced to wave his wrench awkwardly whenever his jungler ganks the enemy laner – now he can set up the gank himself. Aside from that, a lot of counterplay has been introduced into Hextech Rockets – though they can potentially deal much higher single-target damage, they can now be dodged, limiting the frustration that laning against Heimer often imposed.
What do you guys think of the new Heimer? Do you think you’ll enjoy playing him? Will he be a competitive pick? Share below!
A fellow Summoner has released an impressive number of spreadsheets and graphs showing Ahri’s performance pre- and post- PBE changes.
Phreak: As a math nerd, I have a few bones to pick with the data you put up:
1. You are showing “difference in damage” and not “total damage dealt.” It’s really easy to make a super biased graph that says, “LOOK GUYS, FOUR HUNDRED DAMAGE DIFFERENT” except that when your full burst is 4,000 damage, no one cares that you killed TWO Ashes. She’s already dead. Showing the numbers in context of actual damage dealt gives a much fairer view of “pain.”
2. There’s a lot of extraneous useless points on the graphs. Tracking Ahri’s 800 AP burst at level 5 is disingenuous because that’s actually impossible in a real-game situation. I realize some cropping may make the graphs harder to track, but showing, “Damn -140 on a level 4 Q-W combo?” is extremely bias-inducing.
3. Your choices in data are disingenuous. What I saw from your graphs are that in almost every single case, your single target damage goes up if you land charm. That’s the intended behavior. Showing “GUYS SHE DOES SEVEN HUNDRED LESS DAMAGE (if you count ambient damage to targets you don’t actually care about because they’ll hit minions most of the time anyway and she still one-shot your ADC) is really, really, really poor form. You sought out the worst possible situation, one that actually doesn’t ever happen in game, and then said, “LOOK HOW BADLY SHE GOT RAPED GUYS!”
Now, here’s the thing about Ahri’s design that we’re looking to change.
1. A freaking ton of her damage comes from non-skill shots. That’s why the nerfs are aimed at W and R. Because you don’t get to outplay Ahri. If she has the stats on you, you just die. You can’t outrun her. You can’t CC her for long enough. You can’t even juke her. You just die if she hits her buttons in the right order.
2. As a result of this, we are saying “Okay well your guaranteed damage isn’t very high unless you land a skill shot first.” Suddenly, counterplay! And with the fact that her single-target burst goes up in every single situation but one, I’m pretty sure the numbers are close. Your graphs also support this. The problem is, you’ve clouded that by saying, “But she does less damage to minions 95% of the time!”
Are these changes not nerfs?
Phreak: I am not denying that we’re nerfing Ahri.
I’m denying the sevrrity of the nerfs to Ahri. I’m denying that she’s nerfed at all if she lands Charm.
The point of the changes is to condition her high damage upon landing Charm.
Morello jumps on the forums to explain the team’s decision to leave Sivir struggling to reach the creep wave.
Â Â Morello:Â There’s a lot of moving pieces on the Sivir rework, for sure. Let’s talk about a couple of points (this is a well-reasoned, if long, post so I want to highlight it as a good way to have a discussion).
I do want to address the “the only way to fix her is to make her have equivalent attack range”. My core stance is that Sivir now has a number of levers we can use to tune her correctly. I’m actually not terribly interested in what the current tuning is because that can be fixed quickly as long as the core gameplay is good, but we’ll talk about where that’s true and not on the new kit.
1) Sivir’s short range is largely a cost she pays to allow ricochet to be more aggressively tuned.Â This wasn’t the case before the VU because of ricochet being more basic and not adding a ton of pressure on its own, but the new ricochet allows for higher-pressure haraass while wave-clearing to create a more claustrophobic lane for enemies. Original Sivir had a long range and an uncapped ricochet, which basically prevented her from exposing herself to opponents at all. It was like a super-Caitlyn!
The new W looks to go back closer to that paradigm. While not uncapped still, ricochet is core to Sivir’s power and should be tuned as aggressively as we can manage – it is, afterall, the most defining, non-power feature of the character. The nice part of the new one is that its built as a variable number of shots.
For example, let’s say 3’s too low. Sivir is likely insane if we made that number “your next 300 shots.” There’s a number between 3 and 300 that makes this skill satisfying and balanced, and we’ll be looking for that number (along with other tweaks that make Ricochet do its job better). It has a cooldown window and resets attacks, providing at least basic decision-making and counterplay to use.
2) Sivir’s core strategic strengths are pretty unique; marksman-level AOE damage, high mid-game burst thanks to Q double-hitting, and a team-based engage/disengage skill.Â That means we should (and are) going to embrace those unique factors, while providing costs in other things other people do well. This likely places Sivir in a place that’s more niche than a Vayne, but that’s part of what having a a character stand out and be something that feels different is about. Balancing Sivir through homogenization is very possible, but not the direction we generally want to go wherever we can avoid it. If she’s not doing these things, then she has the hooks to tune them.
3) Sivir might be bad in some metas, and good in others. This is not only fine, but preferable.Â This goes a lot in-line with my above point, but this is more similar to Kog’Maw – other game states and comp choices will change the viability of that champion, especially as we’re thinking Sivir’s likely harder to play than some other characters.
So is Sivir perfectly balanced? Probably not – but that’s not the meaningful issue, especially as a character like her who has needed some work to be usable for quite awhile. Now, however, we have tuning points available to us to make sure we get her in the right spot, for the right reasons, all while making sure she has a space that’s all-her-own within LoL.
[Zerglinator]Â Why didn’t you make Ricochet a toggle?
Â Â Morello:Â That version was untunable, because mana is not a good enough gate in both early and late game. X shots is, and allows us to give her an AA reset that can improve overall damage in all situations.
[RockMan EXE]Â Why are Sivir’s base stats so low?
Â Â Morello:Â Not sure (Statikk might!), but that’s very, very simple to fix. We can change base stats easily if it’s needed!
[Arlunn] Has the cast time on Sivir’s ultimate been removed?
Â Â Morello: We were happy to fix that too!
[Typhnox] Was Sivir’s auto-attack reset a balance concern when you were reworking her W?
Â Â Morello: For cooldown, yes, but for number of shots, they’re independent. That gives us a lot more control over this spell so we can balance it as we see how it goes.
[Blaine Tog] Why, then, is Jinx allowed to have so much range on her Rocket Launcher?
Â Â Morello: Might be hard to tune, haha. But bounces are more wild – they scale very differently in different situations, where AOE/Range is more concrete.
[HigeR] Why was the team AS aura buff removed from Sivir’s ult?
Â Â Morello: We talked about that, and this was a tough choice here. We agree the AOE AS buff gave her really cool synergy with certain team comps. MS is more universal, and thought that might also help her be useful on a wider variety of teams (something we thought she could use with her other specific power set).
[RockMan EXE] Will you make Sivir easier to last hit with?
Â Â Morello: Especially important that last-hitting feels good on marksmen, for sure. I’ll see what Statikk thinks (as he mentioned in his post, we’re worried good players on internal tests caused some conservatism on numbers).
[Ratastok] You should listen more to seasoned Sivir players
Â Â Morello: We did listen – we removed the cast time on her ult and allowed her to fill the lanes with bouncing missiles again, commonly-requested Sivir changes.. We just don’t do every single suggestions because we’ve given a laundry list of reasons why we’re choosing not to.
Remember we have a whole ecosystem to think about, and what “X champion players want” can be at costs to overall good health. We do what we can, but it’s rarely “everything.”
[HigeR] Can you decrease the CD on Sivir’s E to help her early game?
Â Â Morello: Shield is mostly tun-able through CD – easy to do and valid.
[Irish Red Cap] Sivir doesn’t have a gap-closer
Â Â Morello: Her ult’s a gap-closer – a pretty good one at that!
Are you really worried about the lane matchups, or teamfighting? It seems people are really focused on laning to me on this.
EDIT: So her team movement speed is NOT a gap-closer? dafuq.
[I am Trynda] Suggestion: Increase the number of bounces on W, reduce the bounce speed to introduce more counterplay
Â Â Morello: Very true. If we can get away with more, I’d like to push on that when we see actual balance.
Balancing the right way: emphasizing on unique mechanics
Â Â Morello: OK, forums. Let’s talk.
I’ve seen more weird downvoting of informative posts lately, and in this case the message that sends to me is;
We want homogenized power, stop trying to carve out unique spaces for stuff because it might not be super powerful. “Just make it strong!”
Because if you’re telling me “don’t do what you just did,” that IS what is left over by default. Every single piece of power has a cost, and 50 range is a lot of power budget.
So what is the alternative? We can make Sivir “not quite as good Corki” at 550. Her ricochet would need to be nerfed, her ult less fight-changing, and ultimately, a pretty flat character who would be easy to replace with other marksmen.
I know that cost isn’t apparent because power is apparent, and there’s a lot of examples of powerful characters that do this. It’s like saying a mage is weak if it can’t burst.
[Luscious Lenny] Suggestion box
Don’t buff her range
Her W needs base damage. (heavily nerfed her crit sustain damage) 250 plus a crit.
AA animation needs to be cleaned up. (like you did with Ryze)
Base attack speed needs to be buffed back up. (6.2 come on man)
Do this and she will be a damm good adc
Â Â Morello: Agreed – she’d be really strong like this.
Â Â Morello: And this is why so much thrash happens on GD. There’s little understanding the difference between balanced and balancable. If it’s not the strongest, it’s trash, and its design is trash.
FFS. The disagreements don’t bother me (those can be very good!) the anger doesn’t bother me, it’s that I don’t have time to teach 10’s of millions of people about game design, but they want to tell you how much they know about how to do it. And without it, it will be a lot of posts like this that taunt me into posting on them instead of something good.
This goes towards the vocal minority that overshadows legitimate feedback. Simply telling off the developers on their work is no way to conduct a conversation. Please understand that Rioters are people, they’re just as easily affected by negative comments as you are, only they’re less inclined to show it. If you disrespect their effort to provide you a better experience at every turn, then how do you expect to be treated the next time around? Shallow complaints and whining doesn’t help the balancing team, it doesn’t help readers gain a perspective on the matter and it doesn’t help you feel any better about whatever change has happened.
I appreciate substantial comments on this site and I’ve started re-directing some of them to NA forums. Thanks to everyone who voices his/her concerns in a civilized manner!
[emTmyclipin2u] The missiles are a great skill to level up first in certain scenarios
Â 20thCenturyFaux: Yay! That’s exactly what I want to see. I put a bunch of effort into making sure Heimer could level W first if he queued a blind pick and ran into someone like Kart–a mage who can easily and efficiently destroy turrets.
[Echeerie] Can Heimerdinger move while casting R+W?
Â 20thCenturyFaux: Yes.
[RainbowTrenches] How far does Heimerdinger have to move for his turrets to shut down?
Â 20thCenturyFaux: It’s the same range as passive, so you can make it visible by mousing over the passive icon, if that helps any.
[LordFacepunch] Suggestion: Passive rework – Heimerdinger’s turrets heal themselves and Heimer for 10% of the damage dealt
Â 20thCenturyFaux: Hmm, interesting. It gives the same resistance to mistakes and it doesn’t require concentration. It forces you to max Q in lane, but it wouldn’t take much fiddling to let you max W too. I’ll need time to think, but there’s potential here for sure.
[LordFacepunch] How tanky is the R+Q manmode turret?
Â 20thCenturyFaux: It actually does get a bunch more hp than normal turrets, and in fact is big enough to live through Smite, Consume etc. It might still be too squishy, just like the other turrets, but I figured I’d point it out :3
[Vakarian Garrus] Will Heimerdinger get a visual update?
Â 20thCenturyFaux: I’ve heard from players who follow the art bros that Heimer VU is likely, so it’s probably more a matter of when than if. I don’t have a ton of visibility into that stuff, I’ve been pretty absorbed into Heimerland for the last quite a while.
[SonicTheHedgedawg] How about adding a ranged damage reduction to turrets?
Â 20thCenturyFaux: Our ADC playtesters got so mad at me when they couldn’t kill the turrets, so much rage you have no idea lol
I had a really hard time figuring out a damage reduction value that wouldn’t create “corki shoots turret twice, turret still alive” some of the time :[
[exec3] Why do turrets shoot slower now?
Â 20thCenturyFaux: Slowing the attack speed down lets you pick its damage out of a crowd more easily. It also makes it feel bigger, which is cool, and more like a tower, which is awesome.
[SonicTheHedgedawg] Are you worried players will use turrets as wards?
Â 20thCenturyFaux: Worried? I added a special sound to make them better wards ^^
Heimerdinger is all about invention and creativity, imo. I will do anything I can to support as much weird diversity as the Dinger can manage.
List of known bugs
Â 20thCenturyFaux: Hello! Just wanted to pop in and say I’m still reading every post, I’m just focused on wrangling all the bugs that PBE testing turned up.
Turret resists not scaling with Heimer level (non-linear, basically only matters at levels 11+)
Tooltip on RQ slow incorrect
Tooltip on RQ duration bugged
Range indicator on Q placement as well as turret range size
Range post-deploy circle for RQ
Maaaaaaybe a way to check what turret was the last one placed? Not sure how doable this is, gonna be barking up this tree though
The weird thing about the resists bug is that it hasn’t proven as problematic as I thought. We’re definitely getting reports that they feel too squishy, but the impact is less than imagined and people are finding clever ways of playing around it. I’ll be checking in fixes for most of this stuff today, resists included, and I’ll be watching how they change the Heimer turret game very closely.
Specific stuff I’m looking for data on:
The special Heimer-only ‘turret hits champ’ sound. Annoying? Useful? Thoughts pls!
Turret tankiness at champ levels 11+. How fast are they dying? How fast are you replacing them? At how much CDR?
Turret AI bugs! I’ve heard scattered reports of the AI being dumb, but it’s hard to pin down.
Wacky playstyles! If you come up with a way to Dinger like no ding has donged before, please share it! This is way more important than it seems. Heimer is a bit of an oddball in that his balance depends hugely on how he’s played.
Thanks for all the kind words and feedback! I’m blown away by how big/awesome this thread is and I can’t wait for this to go live.
[Aerophobia] Doesn’t the shutdown range prevent Support Heimer from using the turrets as wards?
Â 20thCenturyFaux: Yeah, I’m curious about this too. It’s my hope that it won’t be too oppressive to go within range every 8 seconds or so, specifically because the times when you can’t are also times when you’re pushed to your own tower, making the ward less necessary anyway. Support Heimers, is this true? Why or why not?
[NegativeZ3ro] Where does the new Heimer fit in terms of damage output?
Â 20thCenturyFaux: Heimer is a bit of an oddball. He puts out huge damage and can reduce a champ to dust very quickly, but he can’t do what Ahri type champs do in terms of jumping someone and killing them. His kills are more about forcing people to fight in his turrets or following up an ally’s engage with a rowdy RW.
How does Banner of Command interract with Heimer’s turrets?
Â 20thCenturyFaux: It works on turret autoattacks but not turret beams. Note that this does include the Apex RQ turret’s autoattacks.
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