Rioters answer all your questions about Lucian below! Additionally, Scarizard brings a massive update to Rengar’s state, including the return of stealth and the Armor/MR from Battle Roar! Last (and kinda least) – the new Champion/Skin Sale!
Apologies for the article drought this week. I’ll be back on schedule as early as Monday! Also, there may be formatting issues with this particular article on widescreen resolution, so if you see any, you’ll need to resize your aspect ratio through your browser’s tool options.
Lucian’s Double AMA
Stalking returns: Rengar’s new Build
Champion/Skin Sale – Expires August 2nd
Â Lucian’s AMA
Rioters gather to answer all questions regarding the latest addition to the League’s roster!
Feel & Design
[Valaran] Why does he carry two different guns?
RiotRunaan: The fact that they’re different is very important from a story perspective, though, and something we focused on quite heavily during art iteration. One of the weapons belonged to his wife, and one of them was his all along. It was a tough challenge to make sure the guns were similar enough to avoid the implication of a different power source or different gameplay between the two, but still preserve such an important aspect of his story.
[Agracho] How did you get the idea for the Ultimate ”The Culling”?
RiotRunaan: Couple more details – thematically, we wanted a moment in which Lucian could “let loose.” All of his other abilities are very focused, precise, and deliberate. In his ultimate, raw emotion breaks through his normally cool and collected personality.
[Jocko6418] When designing a champion, does the idea originate from a character concept, or an in-game mechanic concept? Which was Lucian created from?
nickstravaganza: It can come from either, depending on the champion. Lucian was inspired first by the concept art. His gameplay went through many iterations, but he’s always stayed quite close to the first image.
[Velediron] I’ve noticed that when Lucian’s passive is used, if he begins moving, he continues the animation by shooting to his side/over his shoulder and I absolutely adore it. How difficult was this to implement and can we expect such smooth animations for future abilities?
nickstravaganza: Hey, as Lucian’s animator, I can answer #5. That passive animation uses something called parametric blending, which allows us to blend between different animations based on how he turns. We’ve used it in the past on Thresh (his long chain) and on Zac (Stretching Strike). We’re using it more going forward and even on Lucian, it’s used on his W and his Ult in addition to the passive.
[Arcviral] How much has “The Culling” ( R ) changed during development?
Scarizard: The Culling has basically been on the kit since Day 1 – but it was initially tuned as a ‘blow this guy up and do every bit of damage’ spell. The base Damage/Ratio are still very high, but we found that with that model Lucian’s Ult took up almost all of the power budget of the champion, such that his Q/W/E/P felt really useless, but then the Culling would just instagib people out of nowhere. We decided to make the Culling still a good portion of his kill/damage potential, but inject more agency into his other spells.
[Tnomad] What was it like working with Daniel ‘Zenon’ Klein on Lucian?
Scarizard: The day Daniel started, i thought to myself ‘I wonder if i’ll tear my hair out working with him.’ Many months later and after our first project – i can safely say i’m still asking myself the same question 😛 Truthfully though, Daniel’s personality i feel is what helped keep Lucian core through a lot of feedback and iteration. Champion Designers are usually the guardians of their Champion’s feel, and he was no exception in this regard. Quite sure i’m speaking for the team when i say it’s awesome working Daniel and would do so again.
[nothingxs] What was the focus of Lucian’s design?
Morello: Lucian was a weird process – it actually broke a couple backs on the way because of lack of direction on this front. In the end, we did something in-between; the thematics called for something that felt pretty “action-packed” (using references of material like the Matrix or Equilibrium), but we wanted to explore a space that was both more auto-attack focused to fit the role of a Marksman. Additionally, we wanted to try something a bit different than missile-based skillshots to get there, which leads to skills like Lucian’s Q and R being “aimed,” but not shooting normal skillshots.
[slinkyvagabond] Why was Senna abandoned in the story?
RiotRunaan: In writing Lucian’s story (and being a woman myself), I struggled with this quite a bit. I admit that it does feel like a bit of a cop-out in the way it’s been presented so far, but the conclusion I came to was that the story we’re focusing on, at least for Lucian’s champion release, is Lucian’s. We did our best to hint at Senna’s deeper character – for example, it’s lightly touched upon that when they were together, she was the more no-nonsense and “tougher” of the two (with Lucian being the more light-hearted and humored). It was important to communicate, at least in a small sense, that she was more than just a cardboard cutout “damsel,” even if we were going to present very limited information about her.
There’s also the mystery of how exactly Thresh managed to manipulate and trap her – this is something we left intentionally vague, as it’s something we eventually want to reveal as very deep to Senna’s character. The most I can say is that it was not at all a simple trap. We’ve left a lot open for further development on Senna’s character, too – for example, I hope people speculate as to what her interaction with Thresh is like from within the lantern. Senna’s a fighter; she’s not going to take his torment easily. tl;dr – I admit Senna’s presentation in current lore is very limited. That said, we have discussed her very heavily and there is more to her than what’s been presented thus far. I very much want to develop her further and use her in ways that aren’t typical to the “damsel in distress” trope in the future. : )
[Sour_Jam] Why was Thresh picked as Lucian’s rival over other established villains?
Morello: Originally, we wanted them to be released near each other, but some release complexities changed that. We thought the lantern hook was good too – it’s easier to understand the relationship when a character already has “this thing holds souls.” 🙂
RiotRunaan: To add to Morello’s post, we also wanted a character who stood in contrast to the Shadow Isles specifically. As Thresh was in development, it was an ideal opportunity to bring the two together.
[TxtsMinez]Was the replay button for Lucian’s load screen theme hard to implement?
Verdugren: We have some awesome tech/art wizards who weave the black magic that makes the login screen work… They definitely picked up their game for this one and are always looking to level up what we do with the login.
[vakabiel] How did you end up working with Crystal Method on the login music?
Verdugren: A bunch of us on the music team with Praeco are big fans (myself included) too of Crystal Method. We reached out and had an awesome vibe with them, and they loved Lucian. The rest is history!
[godplusplus] Is Hired Gun Lucian based on The Twins from Matrix: Reloaded?
Morello: There’s some influence from that there, for sure.
[suchareq3] His autoattack and ultimate particles are really unique -where did you get the inspiration for them?
RiotSilver: Lucian is all about light. Originally his particles in development looked very prismatic with many more colors than their current state. At that point they were pretty noisy and treaded a little too close to Lux’s particle design space so we ended up limiting the palette to a blue/yellow sceme that we feel still communicated the same thing, in a more unique and readable way.
Mechanics (from Zenon’s solo AMA)
[Cxarol10] What was the previous ult that he had? I heard it was some kind of missile.
DanielZKlein: Yup. It was called Seeking Shot or something like that. Here’s how it worked:
- You marked an enemy champion in ~1500 range. For the next 6s they received a Caitlyn ult icon over their head (placeholder art).
- Within the next 6s you could shoot a missile in any direction. The missile would travel in that direction for about 0.5s and then start turning toward the marked target.
- The missile would bank SLOWLY and overshoot and correct. I was madly proud of the fake physics I’d written for that simple spell. It gave the missile a feeling of heft and real world physics.
- Once the missile was locked onto the target for 0.2s in a row, it would go into dumbfire mode, accelerating and gaining most of its damage. The target line would change colour to communicate this changed state. This was when the enemy could sidestep the missile. It could be body blocked at all times.
There were a whole bunch of reasons why we canned that ultimate, not least of all that it’s an AP carry skill: it’s a skill for a character who relies on skill execution rather than positioning. It also required you to look in too many places and potentially stand still for too long while lining up the shot. Finally, the counterplay I imagined wasn’t there. Before I added the dumbfire mode people just shot the missile point blank at the enemy and all the banking was totally lost. After I added the dumbfire mode I never found the right set of values for missile speed/acceleration before/after dumb fire that made it challenging but possible to dodge.
I admit I still have the lua scripting shelved. Just in case I need it for another character at some point. It was my first complex skill ever, and I was really happy with it from a playing-as perspective.
[tzu3] What was the reason to not make Lucians Q a Skillshot since that would somehow make more sense?
DanielZKlein: Morello answered this in great detail in the original AMA. Here’s my TL;DR:
- Our Q feels like a trick shot: lined up through a moving target, great range but dodgeable. If you hit it, you feel accomplished.
- Gating allows us to put greater power into the skill. It scales with bonus AD like mad once you get it to rank 5.
[DarkPercy] How does The Culling’s AS Ratio round up/down ?
DanielZKlein: The actual formula, from memory, is (AS * 2.5/3/3.5) + 2.5, and it rounds down.
[Herpes_Vendor] Did you have an obvious lane combo in mind when making Lucian?
DanielZKlein:Â I don’t think Lucian was specifically “made” to shake up the bot lane meta, but this is very much an intended side effect. Let’s see how it turns out! As for supports, we found that he generally works with most supports that are strong now (which is a good thing), but particularly supports that can hold the enemy in place for 3s.
[Magnissimus] Are you satisfied with Lucian’s current state?
DanielZKlein: I personally am very satisfied with them, yes. Give it a few weeks, you’ll see.
[EonOmega] Is it intentional that multiple “Light” champions have Proc-based mechanics? (Leona-Passive, Lux-Passive/Ulti, Lucian Passive/W)
DanielZKlein: This is a tough one to answer. I feel there’s an underlying trope here of light marking enemies, but I can’t quite put my finger on it. It feels right, you know?
[Zemnozz] What do you think is the priority for Lucian’s ult? Attack speed or AD?
[Vulkanus8] Do you expect to see Lucian on the competitive play? Why/why not?
DanielZKlein: Too early to tell, but I’m hopeful!
Do you agree that Lucian’s reset mechanic is too hard to pull off?
DanielZKlein: We’re okay with a useful E reset being a one in ten games thing. Thanks for your kind words!
[Zacheris] Isn’t there a disconnect between Lucian’s AS scaling on R and his natural AD scaling?
DanielZKlein: Yeah, there’s a few things here. You correctly identified that AS “feels” good and we want to support that. At a very low / beginner level, you want to be able to build things that feel good and not completely screw yourself. Secondly, The Culling feels like an extension of Lucian’s auto attack. It just feels right to have it scale with AS also. Finally, at the top level it’s about build diversity. Once you have a bunch of AD and armor pen, building AS becomes very cost effective.
[NurokToukai] Is there any talk on the team to buff his ult?
DanielZKlein: Early data suggests close to a 49% winrate. This is while we’re still in the steepest climb of his learning curve.
[grbee] Isn’t his W bad for his kit and why is it star-shaped?
DanielZKlein: The star was there first. Casey made a badass looking star explosion and I made the skill to fit. And why would you say that? He’s all about mobility and the skill gives him more mobility.
[rafalemos] Have you seen the Q bug where it costs double the mana?
DanielZKlein: Yup. Our QA vendors are on it.
[DemonDZ] Why doesn’t his ultimate scale with SotD’s AS active?
DanielZKlein: It would have made the item too much of a must buy for Lucian.
[elguepo] Was the effectiveness of Lucian and Thresh laning together done on purpose?
DanielZKlein: It’s partly an accident and partly me being a huge fan of CertainlyT.
[Bugslider] How does Lucian’s E fit his kit?
DanielZKlein: So the thought toward kit synergy in his E is that all his other skills require precise positioning. E allows you to get that positioning, even when a Nasus withered you.
[juffery] Are Lucian and Vayne similar in their beliefs?
RiotRunaan: You’re right, they are very similar on a base thematic level (“hunters of evil”), but they’re essentially two sides of the coin – think of it in terms of darkness and light. Lucian and Senna hunted evil with its natural opposite, righteous magic intended to destroy corruption. They were also protectors; their motivation hinged on saving innocents in need as much as it did purging corruption. They were beloved heroes.
Vayne, on the other hand, is more of the Batman of Runeterra – she’s hell-bent on destroying the supernatural, but she is not afraid of using underhanded methods and turning the darkness against itself. Her methods are not always smiled upon by greater society. Personally, the similarities between them alongside the subtle differences are a really interesting opportunity for future interaction. They wouldn’t get along, but they’d share incredibly similar goals – perhaps they’ll end up reluctantly fighting a common threat one day. Who knows?
[ringadu] Was the LucianÂ / Thresh relationship planned around when Thresh was being made?
RiotRunaan: We definitely wanted to leave a lot open-ended between Lucian and Thresh. Usually, when we develop relationships between champions, we like to leave some elements of the story to be explored in the future. As I mentioned in another response, Lucian and Thresh were actually developed around the same time late last year – Lucian’s gameplay just required a lot of iteration that led to his much later release date.
[Glyceroll] Is Senna stuck forever or is there hope for her escape?
Â RiotRunaan: Senna’s pretty dang trapped for the moment. There’s nothing to say that she couldn’t be set loose – Thresh’s goal in taking her to the Shadow Isles was essentially to set her free there, where her powerful soul would be transformed into some kind of monstrosity. However, he hasn’t let her go… is he keeping her trapped as a tool to torment Lucian, or is there a deeper motivation behind his keeping her locked away? Food for thought!
[vakabiel] What powers the guns that Lucian uses?
RiotRunaan: His guns essentially fire purifying light magic. They also cannot be fired by just anyone – you have to have certain qualities to be able to fire them.
[Velediron] What gave the inspiration to Lucian’s and Senna’s backstory and lore?
RiotRunaan: The inspiration for Lucian and Senna’s story was actually pretty spur of the moment. Lucian and Thresh were actually developed around the same time (late last year) during the time we were focusing heavily on The Shadow Isles. We came up with the connection between them pretty organically – someone threw out the idea in a meeting. “Wouldn’t it be crazy if Thresh had the soul of Lucian’s wife in his lantern?” Everything else sprung up from there.
[Velediron] What’s the story behind the interactions with Hecarim and Mordekaiser?
RiotRunaan: Lucian’s hatred of the Shadow Isles is centered on Thresh, but his mission to purge the undead definitely doesn’t stop there. He’s definitely encountered other denizens of the Shadow Isles along the way – thus the custom taunts. 🙂
[Velediron] Do you flesh out the stories more than just the lore that is revealed to the players? Is there a more intricate story about how Thresh actually tricked Senna and escaped from Lucian?
RiotRunaan: Yes, there’s definitely more to the story than we’ve given away. We had a ton of discussion on how Thresh manipulated Senna and managed to capture her, but the things we talked about couldn’t be told in a way we thought would be satisfying or impactful to players. We chose to focus on the core of the characters involved and leave some revelations and story for the future.
[EinAardvark] From where in Runeterra is Lucian?
RiotRunaan: He’s from Demacia!
[Epik-EUW] So, just to clarify because the Batman analogy made me slightly confused…. Vayne is more of an anti-hero sometimes adored, sometimes vilified (like Deadstroke), when Lucian is more of a traditional hero (like Superman)?
RiotRunaan: Yes, that’s roughly it (though Lucian’s in a place where he’s “fallen” in a way after the death of his wife – he’s lost sight of the righteousness of his mission in favor of obsessive revenge against the undead of the Shadow Isles).
[Clavikus] How does Lucian’s ultimate interact with Lulu’s Help, Pix!, and how does his passive interact with the aforementioned ability?
Scarizard: As Lulu’s Pix buff is a modifier to your basic attack, it would not have any interaction with The Culling (As the Culling is a spell) – but would double-shoot pixbolts with Lightslinger, as it’s two basic attacks.
[zachy55] Why does Lucian’s ultimate feel so lackluster late-game?
Scarizard:Â I think it all comes down to your build – Varus and Miss Fortune are two champions with really powerful AD Ratios, but these will tend to fall-off if your build doesn’t support ability usage and instead favors sustained basic attack damage. Besides, doing damage while kiting or backing off as an AD carry isn’t something i would turn down!
Scarizard: I think a lot of the power of the Culling is tucked away in the simple fact that you can move + cast Relentless Pursuit while using it. You’re totally right that the Low Cooldown is to incentivize using it whenever you feel the need without having to feel like you’ve wasted it – I can see us (do not misinterpret – VERY SLIGHTLY) upping the AD ratio on it, but the situations you’re outlining are the situations the ability is designed to handle.
Doing DPS in a fight when a bruiser decides to jump you? Hit Ardent Blaze + The Culling on them and move backward and enjoy repositioning while dealing damage. Balance on this spell due to a number of factors has always been on a knife-edge – a simple ratio increase can take it into ‘Lucian just uses his short cooldown Culling and everything dies’ or ‘Lightshow tickle-fight’. If it’s more the latter, as always, we’ll make changes if he needs it. Just not convinced he needs it at the moment.
[sublimeo12] Any explanation for why BOTRK is listed as his “essential” item, when items like BT and Triforce seem to be stronger on him in general? Is AS really that strong on Lucian early game?
Scarizard: Lucian scales with so many different stats that it really allows you to customize your playstyle. Builds like IE/PD give you a ton of spike damage with your basic attacks, but leave The Culling taking a backseat in terms of your overall damage output – while BT/LW make your Culling a god-mode R,Â your basic attacks will be weaker than a crit investment. BOTRK fits his dueling nature and allows him to outplay his opponent easily, as well a synergizing with Lightslinger. It’s not my preferred way to play him, but i think it comes down to there being so many ways to utilize him that none were ever really going to feel like they were the best pick.
[lcarlos5] What kind of team comps do you see Lucian fitting in?
Scarizard: We generally have seen him work really well in kite/disengage teams, or pick-based compositions. Things like Elise, Ahri, Thresh (funnily enough) – anyone that makes the opponent stop moving, Lucian can just turn on the Giga-Culling-Prismatic-Gatling-Death-Attack and blow through them with ease. Have to say I’m also hopeful of his viability in a double-AD composition that we’ve seen worldwide. Lucian Mid is quite good, due to wave clear, escapability and the aforementioned burst-damage. Played some tests internally with Lucian Mid and a Vayne Bot and between the two of us we cleaned house.
[DLEric] Why doesn’t Lucian’s Ultimate apply on-hit effects?
Scarizard: Pretty much echoing what people have said before, we didn’t want to apply on-hits unless there was a strong reason to do so. We’ve had periods of Lucian’s balance where his ult is 80% of the damage he deals to a person he kills and as such was kind of insane – Imagine getting hit with Frozen Fist or other types of onhits at the same time D: !
It just came down to a judgement call on our parts – the Culling is kind of a numbers-intensive ability when it comes to balance – adding On-hits into that equation lowers the amount of strength the ability itself is allowed to have due to needing to balance around the ‘best-cast (Ex. if Bork+Shiv+Iceborn Gauntlet+SOTEL Culling is insane, Culling without these items needs to be at 20% Capacity just because he -could- build them).
[alchemist87] Why isn’t his Q a skill shot? Any particular reason as to why it is the way it is right now?
Scarizard: There were really two reasons driving this – one was that Lucian earlier on was missing a reliable damage ability which playtests showed that he really needed. We also felt that he needed a ‘trickshot’ type ability, or something that had him lining up shots or feeling clever about using well situationally.
This led to the Double Up + Ricochet style ability we have – in lane and in skirmishes, it allows Lucian to line up some nice shots (I’ve personally gotten kills -through- an enemy champion to their allied support or jungler a few times), but in the latergame you can still just put your mouse on them and fire away for the damages. Once we really embraced it as ‘Lucian uses a target to aim the laser, then fires it no matter what’ we also found interesting interactions (for instance, Vayne can tumble away from it, quicker movement speeds can run away from it) that actually made it feel much cooler from a playing against perspective.
[Deathzwergi] Will you buff Lucian next patch?
Scarizard: Likely not. If we need to buff him we will, but waiting and not overreacting to first-impression feedback and letting people get accustomed to the champion/letting people explore different builds generally yields better results. Personally, none of us are convinced that he’s weak, and data is trending to suggest it either. Daniel Klein and i already prepared Buffs in the event that he’s weak, or nerfs in the event that he’s OP and can change him if he requires either.
Isn’t Lucian a weak AD carry because he’s dependent on skillshots?
Morello: To be fair, we got this feedback about Caitlyn when she launched. I’m not convinced people have solved Lucian yet (Draven was similar too). I’d rather make it so more counterplay exists than less. We haven’t always done a good job of this, but no excuse to not do better 🙂
[vakabiel] When Senna was taken from Lucian did he sit on a park bench and stare at a cupcake with tears in his eyes?
RiotRunaan: “She was everything to me. But they took her. And with her, they took my pastries and my cookies. That was their mistake – because now, all I’ve got left is a cold cupcake.”
[dida55] How does Lucian feel laning with Thresh?
[Thomasedv] Anything crazy happen during development?
Scarizard: Nothing too gamebreaking, except when we implemented Ardent Blaze’s MS proc, ‘Blucian’ was the build we were testing. While that build still lives (No longer truly blue, just an AD + CDR build) – Spirit of the Elder Lizard’s True Damage (That was applied by the W spell itself) was proccing the Mark, allowing him to just get insane MS at long range without having to follow-up which was pretty OP D:
[Runningman4107] So how many John Woo movies did you guys watch in the process of designing Lucian?
Scarizard: Mandatory John Woo viewings. Daily.
[ravedave] How many man hours went into building Lucien across art, design, and coding?
Scarizard: Probably like half a day.
[Draki1903] NAME ALL THE ITEMS THAT HAVE AN EFFECT APPLIED BY HIS ULTI. CAPS LOCK IS MANDATORY.
DanielZKlein: RYLAJS CRYSTAL SCEPTER. ALL SPELL VAMP ITEMS. ERR. ANYTHING THAT PROCS ON SPELL AOE.
Rengar’s new Build
Following the last, rather poorly received iteration of Rengar’s kit, Scarizard returns with promising changes!
Scarizard: Hey dudes, sorry for going mostly silent this week – had a lot to get done and i don’t like to post when i know i won’t have time to follow up with y’all (this is why last week’s post came on a Friday evening so i had all weekend to keep talking)
So i’m likely going to format this horrendously because i’m at home and don’t have a screencap of the tooltip, but here’s the new idea for Rengar’s ultimate:
Thrill of the Hunt
Hunt: Rengar activates his Predatory instincts, gaining % movement speed and vision of all nearby enemy champions. During this time, Rengar also generates up to 5 Ferocity and his first basic attack will cause him to leap. Lasts (Long Duration) or until Rengar uses an ability/leaps.
After a few seconds, Rengar may choose to reactivate Thrill of the Hunt to enter Stalk.
Stalk: Rengar loses all bonus movement speed from Thrill of the Hunt, but enters Stealth. Lasts (Shorter Duration) or until Rengar takes offensive action.
If i can clarify more, let me know. The basics are that Rengar players get to choose which is best for the situation – to Speedcat for a chase or cleanup? or Stealthcat for an ambush or otherwise awesome juke? I’m excited about this version because it has a lot of flexibility in what Rengar can do throughout the game (by retaining Higher % MS than is on live via Hunt, but retaining the Stealth Ambush in Stalk) but doesn’t let you just hit R and run without being smart about it.
Bonus Question!– Consuming Ferocity on cast is still something i want to do, but i’d want to find a better bonus you get for ‘Empowering’ your Ultimate rather than duration. Suggestions? I anticipate a lot of ‘+Damage and +Stealth’ time, but i’m open to hearing what you guys have to say.
Let me know what you guys think, and sorry for the delay!
Is the “few seconds” wait for stealth necessary?
Scarizard: This is something that can be toyed with, but the idea here is that the Stealth from Stalk activation has no delayed fade time like Live (where damage causes the fade time to increase). Basically if you catch a Rengar out and he ults, either A. He’s gonna book it the whole way, in which case you can see him the whole time or B. He has about seconds of running/juking he needs to do before he has access to his instant stealth.
Again, the intricacies of how/when he stealths is tunable, but i’d like very much for there to be a delay between the two.
Why didn’t you give him Eve-like stealth and can Rengar still Leap during Stalk?
Scarizard: I’ve posted in one of the main-page edits why it’s unlikely that we’d give him Evelynn Stealth – but yes, you can still Leap out of Stalk. From Rengar’s Passive: While in brush or in stealth, Rengar gains bonus attack range and his attacks cause him to leap at his target.
After the stealth ends will the movement speed turn back on or does triggering the stealth end the ultimate entirely?
Scarizard: Once you activate Stalk, that’s it. Any of the duration you had in Hunt is now gone – you can maximize this in a long-rage engagement (Use hunt to traverse great distance, Stalk at the end) but in cases where you’ll Hunt, run at them and have a good portion of Hunt left, your decision to Stalk must be weighed againt using the duration of that MS. You don’t lose Predator Vision though – it’s just the movement speed.
Suggestion: Empowered = Rengar gains extra range on his leap based on how many stacks of Ferocity he consumed
Scarizard:Â One of the reasons we don’t do things like different spell ranges that are non-ultimate (Zac’s E is a recent example of where we’ve intentionally broken this rule) is that your enemies have no idea how many Ferocity points, if at all you’ve burned. So if you’re in Hunt mode and just booking it, how do i know when to use my disengage spell? How will i know when you’re about to leap?
I’d like to make the bonus something that Rengar-only kind of cares about. Duration fit that bill and i’m happy to go back to it, i’m just opening it up to see if there’s anything we can do. Damage incentives make you feel like you never want to ult UNLESS you’re 5-stacked, so making it too much of the ult’s power makes the optimization point feel necessary. Ideally, this feels like a thematic/fun bonus but something you could live without.
Suggestion: Kills or assists during ult grant Rengar an additional necklace stack
Scarizard: Really cool that Rengar could ever double-up on Trophy Gain, but i wonder about the implications of when/how. I’m unsure if Rengar (A champ who on Live is already approaching mechanical overload) could stand the complexity, but in a perfect world where we could do whatever we wanted, i’d want to see a ‘revenge’ mechanic.
Basically you lose a stack when you die, but if you kill the person who last killed you, you’d take back the trophy that ‘dropped’ and a new one – this would reset each death you had and you’d probably only get it once – but it would definitely be interesting. Unlikely that it’d happen, but i’ll keep my eyes open for Big Game passive.
Will I get the same stealth duration if I activate Stalk later?
Scarizard: Currently, Yes.
Won’t split-pushing with Rengar still be too dominant?
Scarizard: Possible, but there are many ways to combat this. Q no longer damage towers – or, Q does hit towers but doesn’t gain the 3 Ferocity or Attack Speed from towers.
Also, Hunt’s MS can ramp. Stalk providing no MS and a shorter duration also means that if he stealths after you find him splitpushing, you can actually fan out and catch him when he reappears.
Not concerned about this. There are more levers than even these that can make things less terrible in a world of gigasplitpushrengar, and i’m willing to do any one of them since they don’t really hit his -actual- power.
Community Feedback: Why the ult change?
Scarizard: Brief post before i head out for the day – been reading a lot of your Ferocity bonuses for R and while i appreciate the creativity, unsure if i’m gonna take anything i see – everything so far is kind of above the powerbudget i’d like to give it – i’m heading towards ‘nice, small bonus’ – where things like Tenacity, a Fear, extra Damage are all things that just make me feel like an idiot for ever ulting without max ferocity.
As for Hunt -> Stalk, i’ve seen a lot of you mention you think it should be reverse. Aside from my poor naming (Maybe Sprint->Prowl would be more accurate?), the basic idea around this is
1. Adds a window of time where Rengar can get caught out and still be outplayed – stealthing, picking a direction you want to go, and then bursting into speed to run away is kind of @_@. Hunt->Stalk at least has a period of time where you know he cant’ stealth you, and if you don’t play it right may not even need to use it.
2. Taken as evidence from our tests where the ult had no stealth at all – in most cases, i think ‘Hunt’ is more universal. When ulting with Rengar, more often than not you want to run fast. Whether or not you’re getting into position for an Ambush or just running a guy down, if your ultimate button gave you nothing else, MS is more consistent and you can form an expectation around the button press. Seeing low-health dudes and pressing R, only to know your giant MS boost is ~5s away from activation feels like they’re escaping from you just because we let it happen – while giving it to you upfront and keeping the Stealth optional allows you to premeditate it for when it would be useful to you.
Maybe i didn’t explain it that well – only got like 4h or so of sleep (Damn you, gamescom !_!), but i hope it makes sense. I’m still considering all of these suggestions, this is just snapshot on where i’m feelin’.
Suggestion: Stalk costs Ferocity to enter
Scarizard: I’ve seen this a bunch in this thread so far, but i don’t see it as having the same problems due to
– Stalk having less Stealth Duration than on Live
– Stalk losing Thrill of the Hunt’s movement speed
– Rengar’s overall burst being lowered
In general, there’s a much lower window for Rengar to Sneak-Attack you. He can also just run and leap on you if his goal is to just get to you, but if taking your opponent by surprise is important (say, in a lane-gank) that option is still available and potent. Overall it takes a lot more planning and execution to pull off the stealth-attack, but you can forgo the planning and just bumrush them (at the cost of alerting them to your presence earlier)
Update: Rengar’s damage still stronk, rolling back on W’s DR changes
Scarizard: Xelnath played him in the jungle and got like 1 bajillion kills (I think the final end score was 15/7/8?) building BTN, BT, Trinity Force, Infinity Edge and Berserker’s Greaves. They ended up losing to a few misplays, but so far judging by his in-game performance (and the screams of ‘oh god’ from the other members of Live Design) it seems like he’s still 100% capable of dealing damage.
W Mechanic is back to Armor and MR from AD Reduction – this hurts his early clear, but we decided that it’s actually pretty necessary for him especially now that he takes slightly longer to kill.
Sprint/Stealth ult is working out pretty well, going to play him myself later today from a Toplane position and begin working on that since jungle seems like it’s working fine (insofar as a bruiser-utility guy with strong laneganks or as an assassin), so i want to make sure that Toplane Rengar is still pretty strong.
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