[Red Posts 11/01] Jhin (New Champion) Leaked Screenshots & Splash Art, Meddler on Tahm Kench Nerfs & Miss Fortune in 6.1, State of Caitlyn and Turrets, Repertoir on Nidalee, Immobile Mage Rework, Anti-Mobility Tools, Ryze & Cassiopeia
- Jhin Leaked Screenshot & Splash Art
- State of Turrets
- Meddler on stopping Nocturne’s ult
- Tahm Kench considered for nerfs
- AP Miss Fortune after Patch 6.1
- Dealing with smurfs
- Repertoir on Immobile Mages, Nidalee, Ryze and more
- State of Caitlyn
- Fan Creations – Instrumental song for Shyvana by Sid88
- Fan Art Corner
Caveat: I don’t design anything at all, I just like playing League of Legends.
Turret targeting is something that might be a point of improvement, but what would that look like? Clearly turrets should not prioritize champions, or pushing lanes becomes extremely difficult. I’m not a fan of the %hp idea, because it makes tanks less relevant, and they already struggle as a class with shifts in the meta.
What are some examples of how turret aggro should work better? Here’s my assumptions:
The tower shouldn’t switch targets if it’s already hitting a champ. The tower should prioritize champions only when there are no minions/pets, and only when they deal damage to friendly champions.
Tower aggro rules should be easy to understand and consistent. (e.g. doing damage to an enemy vs. hitting an enemy with non-damaging cc – either damage should trigger aggro, or any ability/damage should trigger aggro. Imo we should maintain the current functionality).Tower attack rate should be consistent (no tower autoattack reset on champ aggro).
I think I just fundamentally disagree that towers should be able to take on mega-tanks. If they supplement your team’s damage and do around 10-15% of a tank’s HP in 5-6 seconds, that seems reasonable. Any change to towers that makes them threatening to tanks during all stages of the game either:
A. Makes building tank stats completely ineffective against towers (%hp true damage, massive armor pen) and results in tanks being significantly less useful and feeling like crap; or
B. Makes towers massively fuck up squishy champions, punishing minor mistakes really heavily (increased overall damage).
I don’t think either A or B encourages interesting gameplay; it just helps teams with strong waveclear turtle under towers and drag out games, which isn’t super fun imo.
Hmmm, yeah, I think I echo that sentiment. If there’s anything that’s really coalescing for me in this thread, it’s that towers resetting while you are still in the middle of getting dived feels pretty bad. Like I’ve sad a bunch of times, I don’t work on this stuff, but I’ll chat with some folks about this thread and see what they think. I can’t promise that we’ll make a change along those lines as I don’t fully understand the design principles behind towers, but I’ll follow up on it 😀
Hm, the concept of an aggro bar does sounds pretty cool… like the tower is “activated” once it gets champ aggro and will now focus champs until it resets a-la patience timers on jungle camps.
I think the Dragon aggro thing made sense because of aggro juggling being borderline exploitative, and because Dragon actually moves. Turrets gaining range sounds really annoying.
Nocturne’s ult behaves the same way Malph’s does. They’re both unstoppable during the ult, they’re not CC immune though, so can be CC’d and, if the duration’s long enough, will still be CC’d after the ult ends. Ryze snare or Veigar stun for example won’t stop them from completing their ults, but can limit them after they end if applied mid dash.
We’ve been talking about possible Tahm nerfs in 6.2 or 6.3, those aren’t certain yet though (want to make sure we’re nerfing the correct thing(s), want to investigate whether we should be buffing something like his ult’s useability at the same time).
Even if we do nerf him though I’d still expect him to be a pretty difficult match up for Vi. A lot of her power is in her ability to close distance reliably to get onto the target of her choice. That’s not very useful against Tahm direct, given you’re not going to be bursting down a tank, assuming similar XP/gold, and he’s absolutely fine with people putting themselves in his face.
[ Note ] Miss Fortune’s E will be nerfed in Patch 6.1. You can find the notes HERE.
I’ll follow up with the designer working on the MF changes and get back to you, see what his thoughts are on the current state of AP builds on her (not familiar enough with them myself). Can’t make any promises, if AP MF’s in a decent spot on live at present though might be appropriate to increase a ratio somewhere to avoid an unintentional nerf.
We’re intentionally nerfing AD MF with nerfs to her passive and E. It’s possible AP MF may be getting unintentionally nerfed at the same time, I’m unsure whether or not that build’s been assessed internally relative to this change.
A base damage nerf and AP ratio buff would certainly change AP MF’s power curve, keeping that build generally power neutral overall should be doable though if we conclude that’s appropriate here.
Blah I understand this feeling too. I didn’t start playing until pretty much everyone and their super-cool grandmothers all had smurfs that queued up at the same time as I would. It was really confusing and frustrating that so many of my fellow lvl 6 ‘noobs’ could be so much better than I. It can be a pretty sucky experience in the game sometimes.
It’d be neat to do a study on smurfs — I wonder if I could have a chat with a few people around the office to see what we could learn about ’em. Noooo guarantees of course, but it’s definitely a topic I’d be interested in helping out with the research.
I appreciate being able to lurk these boards, particularly in ‘Player Behavior & Moderation,’ even if I definitely don’t get to read everything, and I don’t always comment on things I do get around to reading. Since I’m a gamer too, player pain is a very real thing to me, so these matters are of a particular interest to me and I’d love to be able to make an impact whenever possible.
I can’t speak to much on the past on this one, since I haven’t worked on my full reboots of champions, but moving forward, I think it’s pretty safe to say that on big projects like Taric, Poppy, etc., you can expect new or updated lore, and you can probably not expect new lore on smaller stuff.
For Taric specifically, I’m not the writer of the lore, but I am one of the people that’s trying to help give feedback to the writer. I don’t think there should be a bunch of characters’ lore being reduced in the near future, and we haven’t written the final lore yet for Taric, but I’d expect it to be closer to 3 paragraphs than 3 sentences.
I’m not sure what the immediate balance plans are for her at the moment, but if given the opportunity, I would like to be able to go back and re-evaluate her laning experience, which I think is pretty poor. Specifically, it feels like a constant struggle to manage the minion wave without getting chunked for half your health by your lane opponent.
Garen’s opportunities for opponents are intended to be via kiting or playing around his E cooldown, though I can see a legitimate case being made that he is too strong. Given the nature of his E, he can be a pretty binary matchup for other melee champions to try to fight, especially squishier ones, and I think that the introduction of items like Dead Man’s Plate gives a sort of inevitability to him catching up to people.
We actually have a full-time team comprised of high Diamond to Challenger level players that spend most of the day playing upcoming content and giving us advice on how to hit our goals on it. These guys are really dedicated, too. Currently, they spend all day at work playing/testing 6.01 League of Legends internally, and then all night playing 5.24 League of Legends on the Live environment.
Riot Afic leads up that team. He could probably speak to it more if you could get a hold of him.
I think about things like that sometimes, and try to do it where possible, but it’s always important to make sure to do it in a way that doesn’t compromise the balance of the champion. Using this example, AP Support Miss Fortune is actually somewhat a thing at the moment, so you can see how buffing fun off builds might inadvertently cause issues.
Number of champions is not yet determined, but as far as the level of change in a single kit goes, our mindset is generally that there is one highlighted change (usually in the form of a new skill) to the champion, with other small changes to the existing kit to support it.
Yes, but we are trying to do it in ways that aren’t simply “stop dash in progress.” Hopefully we make some good progress in this regard.
I think item diversity is pretty good for mages, strictly as far as options go before considering things like gold and slot efficiency, which I haven’t personally put a ton of thought into yet. As far as Deathcap goes, I can see a case being made that it limits design space and build diversity.
Not really sure we have a specific timeline on Ryze. ricklessabandon was talking to me about some change opportunities here. I’ll have to follow up and see if there are any plans for Ryze in the short term.
I’m not on the team that works on it, so I can’t really speak to the balance state of the champion, or what the particular reasons are for why she is balanced the way she is at the moment.
As a member of the update team, and as someone that comes here and reads Cass threads that pop up every now and again, all I can really say is that I’m aware of the identity crisis stuff she’s got going on, and that if we ever looked at her again from a ‘small update’ perspective, that is where I personally would start. There are a lot of champions that could use stuff in this regard, however, so no promises.
Though I understand where you’re coming from, I actually think Anivia’s passive is actually in a pretty good spot. The fact that it can fail makes it really awesome when it works, and provides some really cool tension in a lot of cases. Another thing to consider is that the power budget that would have to go into her passive would be much higher if it was much more resilient, and that would have to come from somewhere, as she’s not a low performer as far as her balance state goes.
We would probably do Ice Bird different today if it was a new champion, but I actually think Anivia’s kit has stood up well against the tests of time. It’s arguably lost some of its luster as mobility increases, but Crystallize (W) is still very, very powerful, for example.
Answering this question since it’s one I’ve seen less of, and I think the others have mostly been answered.
Generally speaking, we should avoid making either Armor or Magic Resist supremely more powerful on champions when compared to the other stat, unless it is a very specific intended strength/weakness. Taric falls into this category, where being an exceptionally good pick against physical damage teams is very much an intended strength. I intend on maintaining some of that in his upcoming update.
As far as why we tend to not to strict reverts, I don’t think there’s any one rule for/against it that I know of. That said, we try to make changes that are directionally sound for champions/items/masteries when we make them, so that even if other factors that contribute to their balance change, we’re happy with the decision in the long run. Sejuani and Cinderhulk is a pretty common case people talk about here, but at no point do I think either of them was really unacceptably weak, and I think there are similar things going on with Swain and DFT right now.
Also, I do think that it’s easy for players to feel like their champion has been overnerfed. I’ve historically felt this way about champions I played as well. If you imagine all the various power levels that champions could fall at as a spectrum, it seems reasonable to say there’s a segment of that spectrum that could be considered allowable power levels. As someone who has felt this way in the past about certain champions, I think it’s easy for players to be biased into thinking certain champions power should rest at the upper end of that allowable part, while at the same time being perfectly comfortable with other champions they are less attached to resting at the middle or lower end.
I’m a HUGE Caitlyn player also. She was the first champion I ever really took seriously and wanted to ‘main’. I’m also one of the people that worked on the Champion Update team helping mold Caitlyn into what she is right now.
With that being said, I do feel that Caitlyn changed a bit of her early game power to her late game power. I max Q first then go to E. I do love the traps but I find more reliable damage with the other two. I also get Warlord’s in the mastery tree because I feel that I am banking for that late game fight more than just doing the early game trade. This changes who I want to support for me.
Another thing I’m finding hard is that Caitlyn has a hard time securing kills in a team fight. She tends to hope that an auto kills them and doesn’t really have the ability to take them.
I was hoping you’d be able to tell me what masteries, runes and ability order you are going. I’d like to talk about this more, see how you feel more compared to certain match-ups. I think she should lose early to MF and Lucian. They have early game steroids and ultimates that can be used effectively mid trade compared to Caitlyn where you are charging something.
Excited to hear back from you 🙂
Definitely will be looking more into all this. There are eyes on this and we will not just abandon ship on Caitlyn. Caitlyn should be leaning more towards traps and that zoning aspect. I am not promising anything but no one likes when a champion feels worse than before.
Thank you for sharing your ideas and analyzing what issues Caitlyn has right now. A lot has changed, definitely hasn’t settled yet.
Sid88:Â The Blood Of My Father (Inspired by and dedicated to Shyvana) by Sid
An instrumental track for the League of Legends Champion Shyvana. Artwork by Ae-Rie (http://ae-rie.deviantart.com)
This music is inspired by Shyvana lore. Mostly the bit before she joined Demacia as the Elite Guard. Here I wanted to make something which makes the listener be reminded of the origin of Shyv. Mostly about her being an outcast because of her mixed race and the death of her father who made her who she was. This isn’t a very angry song. But I’ve tried to make it as intense as possible with the limiter resources I have. I really hope you like it!
Please do leave your thoughts below and please do tell me if I can improve on things here. I will try and incorporate it in the next one! 😀 Happy Listening! 🙂
Katarina by Valkymie
Caitlyn by è‰¦é•·ä»£ç†
Arcade Sona by phamoz:
If you have any questions, feel free to ask me atÂ @NoL_ChefoÂ or e-mail me at firstname.lastname@example.org.